# Cliches you'd like to see subverted **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339 "2017-01-04T22:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/81 "2017-01-07T12:30:28Z")
A great many of these tropes intersect with the [Evil Overlord](http://legendspbem.angelfire.com/eviloverlordlist.html) tropes. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/82 "2017-01-07T15:00:53Z")
On “Law and Order,” it would be refreshing if the rapist or killer DIDN’T turn out to be a white millionaire. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/83 "2017-01-07T16:38:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Hey! Our house has a swinging door between the kitchen and living room, too! Our first house did too. 1970s design with a galley kitchen. You may have seen a similar design in _Breaking Bad_ with the White’s house. (A somewhat different design in a newer part of town, and I think it was a modified plan to boot–my parents were the second or third owners, so I don’t know for sure.) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/84 "2017-01-07T18:28:25Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > Instead of detectives with awful personal issues, I’d like to have a police character who is happy and well adjusted. While admittedly I never watched her show, I can’t exactly see Angela Lansbury’s character sitting in a darkened office with the obligatory shadow of Venetian blinds on the wall behind her, with her fedora, triple scotch, three day stubble, and Camel dangling from the corner of her mouth, mordantly pondering the existential dread and ennui of “too many women, too many pills”\* thing. \*_thank-you, Mr. Johnson_ ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/85 "2017-01-07T18:52:51Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > On “Law and Order,” it would be refreshing if the rapist or killer DIDN’T turn out to be a white millionaire. Or more importantly, it would be refreshing if the rapist or killer on _“Law & Order”_, _“Law & Order SVU”_ DIDN’T turn out to be the big name guest star on that episode. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/86 "2017-01-07T19:21:54Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > DThis is another one that I can’t imagine being a trope. Any examples of this one? You could make the argument that _Three’s Company_ fits this trope. Jack Tripper has to pretend to be gay to be able to stay in his apartment. There was also an episode where he had to pretend to be his own twin brother. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/87 "2017-01-07T19:25:54Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > While admittedly I never watched her show, I can’t exactly see Angela Lansbury’s character sitting in a darkened office with the obligatory shadow of Venetian blinds on the wall behind her, with her fedora, triple scotch, three day stubble, and Camel dangling from the corner of her mouth, mordantly pondering the existential dread and ennui of “too many women, too many pills”\* thing. > > \*_thank-you, Mr. Johnson_ Somebody needs to produce this show now! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/88 "2017-01-07T19:35:26Z")
If we’re locked in to “three day stubble,” then perhaps we should cast [Chynna](http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_17/1515041/160427-chyna-wrestler-death-yh-0619p_f8727f064f01846a343d48255af0d18d.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg) instead. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/89 "2017-01-07T19:44:47Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Also sort of on Firefly: > Mal: Sure. It would be humiliating. Having to lie there while the better man refuses to spill your blood. Mercy is the mark of a great man. > _stab_ > Mal: Guess I’m just a good man. > _stab_ > Mal: Well, I’m all right. Also, the jet engine. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/90 "2017-01-07T20:00:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, the jet engine. Also, Mal (?) in a life-or-death struggle with a villain, and his allies come onto the scene, and one says, “This is something he needs to finish himself,” and he says, “No, no, you can kill him!” so they all shoot his opponent. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/91 "2017-01-07T20:31:58Z")
Fans of Sherlock Holmes could point to Arthur Conan Doyle’s “Adventure of the Yellow Face” as an example of a story in which the genius detective comes up with a solution to a case that is brilliant, logical, and completely wrong. At the end of the story, Holmes tells Watson “If I ever become too arrogant, kindly mention ‘Norbury’ to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/92 "2017-01-07T20:49:16Z")
Villain grabs hostage, points gun to hostage’s head, tells cop, “Drop your gun or I’ll kill him/her.” Rather than complying and putting the gun down (as always happens,) the cop simply takes a well-aimed shot and kills the hostage-taker. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/93 "2017-01-07T20:57:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hero’s sidekick: “[Hero], don’t kill [defeated bad guy]! You’ll be just as bad as he is!” > > Hero goes ahead and kills bad guy, suffers no lasting psychological damage or loss of moral center. A similar scene I like seeing subverted: the protagonist is a regular person (not a cop or a soldier or something like that) being menaced by a villain. “You don’t have the guts to pull that trigger!” Protagonist empties the clip into their chest. _Kiss Kiss Bang Bang_ pulled that one off brilliantly. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/94 "2017-01-07T21:12:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Villain grabs hostage, points gun to hostage’s head, tells cop, “Drop your gun or I’ll kill him/her.” > > Rather than complying and putting the gun down (as always happens,) the cop simply takes a well-aimed shot and kills the hostage-taker. Nick Nolte shot the bad guy holding Eddie Murphy in _48 Hours_. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/95 "2017-01-07T21:32:17Z")
In post #14, Leo Krupe gives a written quotation from a movie without mentioning what movie it is. It’s from _L. A. Confidential_. Here’s the scene: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/6yw2bYGTbFM/hqdefault.jpg "L.A.Confidential (1997) - Kevin Spacey - Guy Pierce - Lana Turner") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yw2bYGTbFM) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/96 "2017-01-07T21:35:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Villain grabs hostage, points gun to hostage’s head, tells cop, “Drop your gun or I’ll kill him/her.” > > Rather than complying and putting the gun down (as always happens,) the cop simply takes a well-aimed shot and kills the hostage-taker. The best subversion I have seen of that: Bruce Willis in the Fifth Element. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9TyxxLHfBwE/maxresdefault.jpg "The Fifth Element Best Scenes - Anybody Else Wants To Negotiate?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TyxxLHfBwE) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/97 "2017-01-07T22:54:37Z")
The natives are just as petty, violent, mean-spirited, cruel and avaricious as the outsider interlopers, have NO mystical connection but only \*seemed \*closer to the soil because they had no choice to survive, and are eager to get themselves some material possesions, technology and money. > [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The lone wolf who sees the truth even though no one believes him should turn out to be completely wrong. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Also how about a movie where main character has to return to the small town where they grew, and has a bunch of experiences that only serve to remind them why they moved away from their family to the city in the first place? Hell yeah I’ve argued for these for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/98 "2017-01-07T23:53:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Rather than complying and putting the gun down (as always happens,) Always? IME, that’s how a minority of how those scenes go. Most often - hero doesn’t put the gun down, but keeps talking, trying to talk the villain down. Usually works. When it doesn’t, the bad guy usually gets shot (often by the lead’s partner). Occasionally they’re taken down without gunfire. Rarely does the situation work out for them. Next most - hero does just what you say and shoots the guy. Rarely - hero shoots, either shooting the bad guy through the hostage, or just shooting the hostage.\* And a lot of the time, when the lead does put down their gun, they’ve got backup that the villain doesn’t see. - My favourite version of that version, from Star Trek: Enterprise…the Enterprise crew is fighting a bunch of old-west outlaws (it makes sense in context, and not through time travel, either)… One of them grabs T’Pol, and makes his threat. Reed shoots T’Pol with his phase pistol’s stun setting…the bad guy just looks confused as he drops what he thinks is T’Pol’s corpse, and Reed stuns him. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/99 "2017-01-08T00:05:39Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The natives are just as petty, violent, mean-spirited, cruel and avaricious as the outsider interlopers, have NO mystical connection but only \*seemed \*closer to the soil because they had no choice to survive, and are eager to get themselves some material possesions, technology and money. > > . To some extent, that was Mel Gibson’s “Apocalypto.” It showed the Indians as brutal savages who pretty much DESERVED to be crushed by the Spanish conquistadors. As for small towns, well, let’s face it, there is a plethora of novels, plays, stories and movies showing small town America as Hell. Everyone from Edgar Lee Masters to Sinclair Lewis to Grace Metalious to Shirley Jackson has told us that small town America is filled with ignorant, bigoted, provincial, hypocritical assholes. That’s at least as popular a meme as “small town Americans are the salt of the Earth.” ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/100 "2017-01-08T00:33:47Z")
Making a phone call…_as soon as_ the number is dialed, an incoming call is already coming in, but it’s fucking impossible to retrieve the incoming call because the phone is being douchey and not letting you answer the fucking thing, and instead just goes into voicemail, essentially tying up your phone for a bit, as you wait there… …meanwhile a smiling Fernando Rey putters away on his pleasurecraft… ETA - another phone thing - “Ok talk to you later.” “Yeah bye-bye.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339.md?page=6)