# Cliches you'd like to see subverted **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339 "2017-01-04T22:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/141 "2017-01-12T17:36:53Z")
Occasionally, it would be nice if Perry Mason’s client was blatantly, obviously guilty. Or if Spenser got his butt kicked. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/142 "2017-01-14T01:04:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Homely girl lets her hair down takes off her glasses, and is still homely. ‘Hey guys! I hear we’ve got a new French Teacher taking class today!!!’ Turns out to be a bald guy from Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/143 "2017-01-14T01:29:46Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > While admittedly I never watched her show, I can’t exactly see Angela Lansbury’s character sitting in a darkened office with the obligatory shadow of Venetian blinds on the wall behind her, with her fedora, triple scotch, three day stubble, and Camel dangling from the corner of her mouth, mordantly pondering the existential dread and ennui of “too many women, too many pills”\* thing. > > \*_thank-you, Mr. Johnson_ So true, as have been others’ identifications in this thread of police/detective procedurals that do feature well-adjusted, non-traumatized main characters. I was more so thinking about franchises like _SVU_ that, especially in the later seasons, emphasize storylines about characters’ personal problems and histories that are downright melodramatic and hackneyed. These storylines bore the crap outta me, especially episodes where a criminal nemesis kidnaps one of the detectives (almost always a female detective). Among the many things I loved about _The Wire_ was the resistance to these lazy tropes (true, we did see into the characters’ personal lives, but I never found it to be melodramatic). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/144 "2017-01-31T12:10:59Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Is it possible to make a compelling mystery that isn’t a murder mystery? In one of Dorothy L Sayers’ Peter Wimsey books - Gaudy Night, which seems to be one of the most popular books - there are no murders at all, though there is a sort of attempted murder or two. But yes, it is much more difficult - that book’s from over 80 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/145 "2017-01-31T12:50:43Z")
I could die happy if I never saw another movie where the old guy ends up with the hot young woman - like Sean Connery/Catherine Zeta Jones (_Entrapment_), or Bruce Willis and Mary Louise Parker (_RED_), or Stallone/Sandra Bullock (_Demolition Man_)… I guess the folks who write these movies think all girls have this daddy-thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/146 "2017-01-31T14:02:32Z")
1. Female characters who act like emotionally volatile, mean bitches to show they are independent, empowered women. No, it doesn’t. Genuinely empowered, independent women don’t act like that. This trope is one of the reasons I stopped reading urban fantasy. But it also shows up in sit coms like Home Improvement. 2. Detectives who spot the suspect and identify themselves from too far away. The suspect bolts and runs, causing a big chase. It could have all been prevented if the detectives waited until they were closer to the suspect before identifying themselves. 3. Detectives who don’t call for backup when it is clearly needed, but go in on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/147 "2017-01-31T14:03:41Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I could die happy if I never saw another movie where the old guy ends up with the hot young woman - like Sean Connery/Catherine Zeta Jones (_Entrapment_), or Bruce Willis and Mary Louise Parker (_RED_), or Stallone/Sandra Bullock (_Demolition Man_)… > > I guess the folks who write these movies think all girls have this daddy-thing going on. Agreed. At least the girl in RED did say she was hoping that Bruce Willis had more hair… ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/148 "2017-01-31T14:49:41Z")
The Old Guy/Young Girl is subverted in Up in the Air where Clooney overhears travel companion Anna Kendrick on the phone with her friend saying “Ew no – he’s _old!_” I mean, if George Clooney is getting shot down for being an old guy… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ecks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/149 "2017-01-31T14:53:22Z")
I’ve got one- Group is stalked by mysterious, implacable killer. They manage to get the drop on him, and stab him- only for the killer to… scream in pain and beg for a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/150 "2017-01-31T14:55:11Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Is it possible to make a compelling mystery that isn’t a murder mystery? The Westing Game by Ellen Raskin. (It’s a kid’s book.) Also, there is a famous mystery in which a murder is thought to have been committed, but it turns out to have been an accident: The Nine Tailors, by Dorothy Sayers There are also a couple of mystery short stories by Isaac Asimov in a book called Tales of the Black Widowers: “The Acquisitive Chuckle”, in which a character knows someone has stolen something of his, but he’s a hoarder and doesn’t know what it was; and “Ph as in Phony” (or maybe it was “The Phony PhD”) in which a person is known to have cheated on an exam, but no one can figure out how. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/151 "2017-01-31T14:58:58Z")
People somehow connected with food service who have homicide detective boyfriends, yet are always finding dead bodies and finding themselves allow with the murderer. It’s called "culinary mystery, a sub-genre of the “cozy mystery” bit, and it drives me nuts. The grand dame of the genre is Diane Mott Davidson. Her protagonist, Goldy Schultz, is a caterer who has someone murdered at every event she caters. Why do people keep using her? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/152 "2017-01-31T18:04:56Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The brave handsome hero rescues the beautiful, desirable damsel in distress. At the end of the movie she politely thanks him and they go their separate ways. That’s kind of how _ **Roman Holiday** _ ends. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/153 "2017-01-31T18:37:33Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > 1. Female characters who act like emotionally volatile, mean bitches to show they are independent, empowered women. No, it doesn’t. Genuinely empowered, independent women don’t act like that. This trope is one of the reasons I stopped reading urban fantasy. But it also shows up in sit coms like Home Improvement. This. What makes it worse is that I think a certain subset of society has believed that this is what power and independence for women _means_. So they begin behaving manipulatively, cruelly or selfishly, thinking that they are living up to the ideal embodiment of being a confident and powerful woman. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/154 "2017-01-31T23:29:05Z")
Evil villain: “Har, har, it’s time to die, Mr. Bond (or insert other good-guy-action-hero)” - BAAM - (close up to head wound with brains trickling out) - End of scene. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/155 "2017-01-31T23:52:38Z")
“Ford Fairlane” was a TERRIBLE movie. Do NOT watch it under any circumstances. But toward the end, there was one great scene that subverted a cliche. Robert Englund played an English hit man who was holding a gun on Andrew Dice Clay. Clay taunts him and says, "Put down the gun and fight me like a man, Mano a Mano. Englund drops his gun. Immediately, Clay pulls out his own gun and shoots Englund, sneering, “What are you, an idiot? You NEVER put down your gun! ‘Mano a mano’? What does that even MEAN?” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/156 "2017-01-31T23:55:53Z")
Pretty much. Mr. Bond drops his gun and surrenders to the villain’s henchmen. They mow him down hard. I’d be like “Ok, whichever ones of you that still have rounds in their magazines have to clean the guns of those who don’t. That just seems fair to me. Good job killing Bond though. Bonuses for everyone. Bury that. Thanks.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/157 "2017-02-01T01:13:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Spayed\_PI](#): > > The blond(e) one is intelligent and serious; the dark-haired one is scatterbrained, charming and fun-loving. Wasn’t it this way on _ **Man about the House** _, the British forerunner of _ **Three’s Company** _? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/158 "2017-02-01T01:15:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > People somehow connected with food service who have homicide detective boyfriends, yet are always finding dead bodies and finding themselves allow with the murderer. It’s called "culinary mystery, a sub-genre of the “cozy mystery” bit, and it drives me nuts. > > The grand dame of the genre is Diane Mott Davidson. Her protagonist, Goldy Schultz, is a caterer who has someone murdered at every event she caters. Why do people keep using her? This is like calling in Rosemary and Thyme to landscape your estate. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/159 "2017-02-01T02:15:55Z")
An alien or group of aliens get’s stranded on Earth. The military & civil authorities go to extreme lengths to keep those aliens safe & comfortable out of the sheet terror of possibly offending a civilization powerful enough to be capable of interstellar travel. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339/160 "2017-02-01T02:40:42Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > An alien or group of aliens get’s stranded on Earth. The military & civil authorities go to extreme lengths to keep those aliens safe & comfortable out of the sheet terror of possibly offending a civilization powerful enough to be capable of interstellar travel. Sort of the premise behind Men in Black… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cliches-youd-like-to-see-subverted/776339.md?page=9)