# Climate change: children taking legal action because adults are complacent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657 "2016-05-02T01:10:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/41 "2016-05-03T15:24:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, that isn’t clear. She changed her mind, three times, and she hasn’t made any promises, and there is no assurance that she would keep such a promise if she did make it. > > As usual for Democrats, she has no serious commitment to any practical solution. > > Regards, > Shodan Piffle, even the nuclear supporters do acknowledge what Clinton proposes is good, they still complain about the focus in solar power but the reality is that support of nuclear power is in Clinton’s proposal. [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-2016-renewable-power-plan-120644#ixzz47bdMS2at](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-2016-renewable-power-plan-120644#ixzz47bdMS2at) > [@](#): > > Clinton spokesperson Brian Fallon said that the plan Clinton laid out is the equivalent of 33 percent of power coming from green energy sources like solar, wind and geothermal by 2027, which when coupled with nuclear power, exceeds Steyer’s 2030 goal. > > In a statement after Clinton’s plan emerged, Steyer said the Democratic front runner had “emerged as a strong leader” in addressing climate change. > > “Clinton laid out an ambitious framework to put our nation on a path to a clean energy economy that will create millions of jobs—and in the coming months we look forward to hearing more details about her proposals to tackle climate change,” he said. Again, it was not accurate to point out that Hillary was not going to do different than Sanders, there is a lot of difference on refusing nuclear completely and using it in a framework for solving the emissions issue. And as an example of what happens in the current congress the progress of this bill shows that Republicans do not mind tossing the nuclear baby with the bathwater: > **[Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012 Introduced - OurEnergyPolicy](https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/clean-energy-standard-act-of-2012-introduced/)** > > Senate Energy & Natural Resources Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) has introduced the Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012, which would require electric utilities to derive increasing percentages of their supply mix from low-CO2 sources. The bill would... > [@](#): > > Sources eligible under the legislation include: renewables, such as wind and solar, “qualified” renewable biomass and waste-to-energy, hydropower, natural gas, **and nuclear**. Facilities with CO2 capture and storage, and some combined heat and power facilities, are also eligible. The bill establishes a market-based credit trading scheme, within which utilities could purchase compliance credits from other utilities. > [@](#): > > **The Act was introduced with no Republican support.** Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), **the top Republican on the Energy & Natural Resources Committee has said that she will “only get behind such a standard if it replaces federal climate regulations.”** [The Hill] ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/42 "2016-05-03T15:34:37Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > “Think Globally, Act Locally” > > We shouldn’t be waiting for this change to happen at the top … Unless you know something that I don’t, like a change to human genetics that was made in the last decade or two, we can safely assume that mankind is going to wait for change to happen at the top. It’s what we did, our parents did, their parents did, and all of our ancestors. Anarchists may think that free cooperation is a great idea - and it may well be - but the human condition is such that we will always end up forming hierarchies. Most people aren’t alpha dogs. Nor would it probably be good if they were. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/43 "2016-05-03T16:11:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Unless you know something that I don’t, like a change to human genetics that was made in the last decade or two, we can safely assume that mankind is going to wait for change to happen at the top. It’s what we did, our parents did, their parents did, and all of our ancestors. > > Anarchists may think that free cooperation is a great idea - and it may well be - but the human condition is such that we will always end up forming hierarchies. Most people aren’t alpha dogs. Nor would it probably be good if they were. I’m not disagreeing with you here, just look at the development and expansion of these alternates in the past eight years here in the USA compared to the previous eight years. We do need change at the top in this matter but we still also need the average homeowner to go out and buy a rooftop solar array and a decent battery. Ditch your air conditioner … 'cause you’ll be waiting a hell of a long time before air conditioners are outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/44 "2016-05-03T16:11:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Unless you know something that I don’t, like a change to human genetics that was made in the last decade or two, we can safely assume that mankind is going to wait for change to happen at the top. It’s what we did, our parents did, their parents did, and all of our ancestors. > > Anarchists may think that free cooperation is a great idea - and it may well be - but the human condition is such that we will always end up forming hierarchies. Most people aren’t alpha dogs. Nor would it probably be good if they were. Indeed, going for the example of the water works in developed nations the deniers and fear mongers of the day in old England told the people that the effort to get clean water and controlling diseases like cholera was going to drive the nation bankrupt, because the solution did require making massive works that were not possible for individuals. Well, it did not bankrupt the nation but in reality it increased the value of it. It was calculated that for the priceless situation of seeing things like cholera to be a thing of the past in developed nations we pay about 1% of our GDP. And that is more or less what it is calculated that we will spent when dealing with the emission issue of today. And once again: It will get more expensive the if we do not act now or increase our efforts. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/45 "2016-05-03T16:12:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The great thing about the market is if alternatives really are cheaper than the switch will occur minimal disruption as if guided by an invisible hand. Reading this complete post and its “guided by an invisible hand” certainly gives a completely different impression from … > [@puddleglum](#): > > That was not the claim being made. He said that alternatives were already cheaper, not alternatives are cheaper if you include all of the externalities. The market would work better if the externalities were priced in, that is why I support a pigouvian tax on carbon dioxide producing fuels. It now sounds like you’re applauding the \*good luck \* that alternate energy may be cheaper than carbon even _without_ external costs accounted. I hope you see that’s a _completely_ different claim than the “invisible hand” argument. I agree that foolish consistency is a hobglobin, but that doesn’t mean you should jump from one contradictory cliché to another as seems convenient: you sacrifice any credibility with that. TL;DR: If you acknowledge unaccounted externalities, why invoke the “invisible hand”? (Unless — and now I’m joining you in stretching clichés — it’s an Invisible [Hand of God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls)?) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/46 "2016-05-03T16:16:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Piffle, even the nuclear supporters do acknowledge what Clinton proposes is good, they still complain about the focus in solar power but the reality is that support of nuclear power is in Clinton’s proposal. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-2016-renewable-power-plan-120644#ixzz47bdMS2at](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-2016-renewable-power-plan-120644#ixzz47bdMS2at) Your cite is a little low on specifics. There was one passing mention of nuclear power, and nothing whatever specific on the topic. What **specifically** is she going to do to promote nuclear power (other than oppose practical measures like Yucca Mountain)? > [@](#): > > Again, it was not accurate to point out that Hillary was not going to do different than Sanders… Yes it is. Just like Democrats in general, she talks a semi-good fight but does nothing to actually promote a practical solution. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/47 "2016-05-03T16:22:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The data is indeed complex and involves an enormous number of different variables, although most of them have to do with the political will to engage in serious mitigation and investment in development of alternative energy sources. The fact that there are no simple answers doesn’t detract from the fact that there is an enormous body of knowledge about the subject, that the different scenarios can be modeled, and that we know that the costs in terms of loss of life and property are quantifiable and rapidly increasing. The complex interactions of different scenarios don’t change the fact that everyone who claims that no such data exists is engaged in willful denial. Sure the data exists. That doesn’t mean that we _know_ what real world changes the very complex systems will result in. If those most concerned about climate change would just admit that, then I think more people would find common cause in taking many of the steps they advocate. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/48 "2016-05-03T16:24:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …about 1% of our GDP. And that is more or less what it is calculated that we will spent when dealing with the emission issue of today. And once again: It will get more expensive the if we do not act now or increase our efforts. Would that be in our individual taxes, in our electric bills, or ? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/49 "2016-05-03T16:26:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your cite is a little low on specifics. There was one passing mention of nuclear power, and nothing whatever specific on the topic. What **specifically** is she going to do to promote nuclear power (other than oppose practical measures like Yucca Mountain)? > Yes it is. Just like Democrats in general, she talks a semi-good fight but does nothing to actually promote a practical solution. > > Regards, > Shodan The reality is that it is you who is not giving any good info to demonstrate that. > **[FACT SHEET: Obama Administration Announces Actions to Ensure that Nuclear...](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/11/06/fact-sheet-obama-administration-announces-actions-ensure-nuclear-energy)** And if you are reduced to an argument of ignorance to deal with what Hillary proposed we then know who is not using good sources. [https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/23/hillary-clinton-vision-for-modernizing-energy-infrastructure/](https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/23/hillary-clinton-vision-for-modernizing-energy-infrastructure/) Anyhow, everyone can note also that you ignored how Republicans \*\*do \*\*treat nuclear energy when it is seen as part of a solution to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/50 "2016-05-03T16:29:39Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Would that be in our individual taxes, in our electric bills, or ? As previous real life issues and their solutions showed, it will take a mixture of both and other sources like fees under regulations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/51 "2016-05-03T16:35:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sure the data exists. That doesn’t mean that we _know_ what real world changes the very complex systems will result in. If those most concerned about climate change would just admit that, then I think more people would find common cause in taking many of the steps they advocate. As pointed before, even Nordhaus reported that noticing how complex it is does not deny the steps that need to happen to deal with the issue. As pointed by experts the complexity of an issue is not a good reason for inaction, as even real life shows that some effects of the warming brought by our emissions are turning to be worse than expected. > **[Time-lapse proof of extreme ice loss](https://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss)** > > Photographer James Balog shares new image sequences from the Extreme Ice Survey, a network of time-lapse cameras recording glaciers receding at an alarming rate, some of the most vivid evidence yet of climate change. > [@](#): > > Photographer James Balog shares new image sequences from the Extreme Ice Survey, a network of time-lapse cameras recording glaciers receding at an alarming rate, some of the most vivid evidence yet of climate change. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/52 "2016-05-03T17:31:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As previous real life issues and their solutions showed, it will take a mixture of both and other sources like fees under regulations. Well, good luck with getting people to go along with that scheme… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/53 "2016-05-03T18:15:01Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Well, good luck with getting people to go along with that scheme… As pointed before, we are only unlucky with the Republican congress critters. > **[Not All Republicans Think Alike About Global Warming - Yale Program on...](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/not-all-republicans-think-alike-about-global-warming/)** > > The new Republican leaders in Congress have pledged to roll back the EPA’s proposed new regulations on coal-fired power plants – a key component of President Obama’s strategy to reduce global warming. However, Republican voters are actually split in... > [@](#): > > In contrast to the current goal of Republican leaders in Congress to block EPA regulations on carbon dioxide, half of all Republicans (56%) support regulating carbon dioxide as a pollutant, including conservatives (54%). Moderate and liberal Republicans are particularly likely to support the policy (74% and 71% respectively), while only 36% of Tea Party Republicans support regulating carbon dioxide as a pollutant. > [@](#): > > Asked more narrowly about their support for setting strict carbon dioxide limits on existing coal-fired power plants, majorities of moderate (62%) and liberal (73%) Republicans support the policy. By contrast, fewer than half of conservative Republicans (40%), and only one in four Tea Party Republicans (23%) support the policy. > [@](#): > > Finally, a solid majority of Republicans (64%) support tax rebates for people who purchase energy-efficient vehicles or solar panels. Moderate and liberal Republicans are especially likely to support the policy (77% and 73% respectively). But a solid majority of conservatives (63%) also support the policy. And nearly half of Tea Party Republicans (46%) support tax rebates as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/54 "2016-05-03T19:18:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/23/hillary-clinton-vision-for-modernizing-energy-infrastructure/](https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/23/hillary-clinton-vision-for-modernizing-energy-infrastructure/) Again, light on specifics. What is Hillary Clinton doing to increase the use of nuclear energy? Your cite only mentions grants to cities who reduce carbon emissions, and with only a passing reference to nuclear power. OK, so she is going to give grants to cities. How much, and what nuclear power plants are going to be built? And what are we going to do with the waste, now that she has assisted in shutting down Yucca Mountain? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/55 "2016-05-03T19:28:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, light on specifics. What is Hillary Clinton doing to increase the use of nuclear energy? Your cite only mentions grants to cities who reduce carbon emissions, and with only a passing reference to nuclear power. > > OK, so she is going to give grants to cities. How much, and what nuclear power plants are going to be built? And what are we going to do with the waste, now that she has assisted in shutting down Yucca Mountain? > > Regards, > Shodan Again, I posted only to show how wrong you were on declaring that Bernie and Hillary were the same. Not much more is needed, suffice to say that there is nothing to show that Clinton will not do as Obama has done by giving grants and economical support to the nuclear plants under construction. Speaking of waste even I support a waste facility in Arizona, but after lots of talk the Republicans in this very red state are not moving. Point is that in the end a lot of the opposition to nuclear power is bipartisan in nature or of the NIMBY kind. Again, everyone can note also that you continue to ignore how Republicans \*\*did \*\*treat nuclear energy when it is supported as \*\*part \*\*of a solution to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/56 "2016-05-03T20:16:12Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Ditch your air conditioner … 'cause you’ll be waiting a hell of a long time before air conditioners are outlawed. If you’re relying on people lowering their quality of life, in the majority rather than just the occassional civic minded lefty, you’re not going to see a lot of change on the climate front. What a small percentage of individuals can do is simply insufficient. Like it or not, the changes that need to be made have to be made at the top, and that’s going to be insufficient all the way up to where it becomes necessary to do better. Which is why it’s more likely that our eventual solution won’t be nuclear, nor carbon scrubbers in coal factories, nor battery powered cars, and instead it will be something like giant CO2 scrubber towers installed in strategic locations around the Earth, dumping iron powder into the ocean, or other geo-engineering solutions that allow us to directly manipulate CO2 levels in the sky without having to change our way of life. OR, an individual scientist comes up with a market competitive technology that makes clean sources of energy a real option. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/57 "2016-05-03T20:23:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Cite for Enron counting on government setting that cap-n-trade for them? > > [Enron Invented Cap and Trade - Climate 411](http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2009/05/29/enron-invented-cap-and-trade/) The cap and trade you mentioned was for acid rain reduction. The one Enron was pushing was for global warming prevention from [this article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/01/13/enron-also-courted-democrats/db9d5f82-b371-40d2-ae75-6b86dfb47f1a/) "On Aug. 4, 1997, Lay and seven other energy executives met with Clinton, Gore, Rubin and other top officials at the White House to discuss the U.S. position at the upcoming conference on global warming in Kyoto, Japan. Lay, in a memo to Enron employees, said there was broad consensus in favor of an emissions-trading system. Enron officials later expressed elation at the results of the Kyoto conference. An internal memo said the Kyoto agreement, if implemented, would “do more to promote Enron’s business than almost any other regulatory initiative outside of restructuring the energy and natural gas industries in Europe and the United States.” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/58 "2016-05-03T20:28:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Reading this complete post and its “guided by an invisible hand” certainly gives a completely different impression from … > It now sounds like you’re applauding the \*good luck \* that alternate energy may be cheaper than carbon even _without_ external costs accounted. I hope you see that’s a _completely_ different claim than the “invisible hand” argument. > > I agree that foolish consistency is a hobglobin, but that doesn’t mean you should jump from one contradictory cliché to another as seems convenient: you sacrifice any credibility with that. > > TL;DR: If you acknowledge unaccounted externalities, why invoke the “invisible hand”? (Unless — and now I’m joining you in stretching clichés — it’s an Invisible [Hand of God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls)?) The claim was being made that since alternative fuels were cheaper than having the government mandate change would not be costly. I pointed out that if that were true then the market would make the change without government involvement since the invisible hands guides the market to utilizing the lowest cost solutions. However, I do not believe his claim that alternatives to fossil fuels are now cheaper, so I would like pigouvian taxes to price in externalities and make the market work better. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/59 "2016-05-03T20:35:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, I posted only to show how wrong you were on declaring that Bernie and Hillary were the same. Not much more is needed, suffice to say that there is nothing to show that Clinton will not do as Obama has done by giving grants and economical support to the nuclear plants under construction. There is nothing to show that she is going to do anything but what Democrats do in general - talk out of both sides of her mouth, and do nothing of substance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657/60 "2016-05-03T20:41:05Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If you’re relying on people lowering their quality of life, in the majority rather than just the occassional civic minded lefty, you’re not going to see a lot of change on the climate front. What a small percentage of individuals can do is simply insufficient. > > Like it or not, the changes that need to be made have to be made at the top, and that’s going to be insufficient all the way up to where it becomes necessary to do better. Which is why it’s more likely that our eventual solution won’t be nuclear, nor carbon scrubbers in coal factories, nor battery powered cars, and instead it will be something like giant CO2 scrubber towers installed in strategic locations around the Earth, dumping iron powder into the ocean, or other geo-engineering solutions that allow us to directly manipulate CO2 levels in the sky without having to change our way of life. > > OR, an individual scientist comes up with a market competitive technology that makes clean sources of energy a real option. We have an entire State who will be coal-fired-electricity free in just 14 years … several _million_ civic-minded lefties … and take a gander at what’s happening in California. We do have time to make these changes, a child born today will be having their own children before we even begin to notice climate change. We have 86 years to add five feet to our seawalls, and only where we need too. Places like Los Angeles International Airport are already 35 feet above sea level. Of course, if we do have enough fossil fuels to last a thousands years, then maybe we’ll see some top-down action. If we want to see it done in our lifetimes, we will be disappointed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-children-taking-legal-action-because-adults-are-complacent/753657.md?page=4)