# Climate Change: hail fascism! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2008, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345 "2008-03-14T10:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/1 "2008-03-14T10:00:59Z")
Ye gods guys, [this book](http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/C34504.aspx) does your side of the argument no favours. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, the authors conclude that an authoritarian form of government is necessary, And then they offer a ‘third way’ > [@](#): > > Having brought the reader to the realization that in order to halt or even slow the disastrous process of climate change we must choose between liberal democracy and a form of authoritarian government by experts, the authors offer up a radical reform of democracy that would entail the painful choice of curtailing our worldwide reliance on growth economies, along with various legal and fiscal reforms. Unpalatable as this choice may be, they argue for the adoption of this fundamental reform of democracy over the journey to authoritarianism. Sure, guys. I’m sure we’ll end up with the philosophers of Plato’s Republic. Yeah, right. Moonbats, utter moonbats. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/2 "2008-03-14T10:16:35Z")
I see nothing moon-battish about arguing that meeting the challenges of climate change may entail reforms of economic. social and political systems. These systems change all the time and are deliberately changed to reflect circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/3 "2008-03-14T11:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] I see nothing moon-battish about arguing that meeting the challenges of climate change may entail reforms of economic. social and political systems. These systems change all the time and are deliberately changed to reflect circumstances. [/QUOTE] I, for one, welcome our new authoritarian government overlords! (Seriously, I think it’d be waaaaay cool to be a member of the underground fighting to overthrow the oppressive regime who’s taken control of things “for your own good.” Or maybe I’d be a Han Solo kind of guy, just doing any old job for the money.) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/4 "2008-03-14T11:10:42Z")
Oh yeah, for more nutter fun, [check out the NPR interview with James Howard Kuntsler](http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2008/03/20080311_a_main.asp), who’s convinced that in **five** years, the US will be reduced to something like _Mad Max_ in the 14th century! ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/5 "2008-03-14T11:17:44Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] I see nothing moon-battish about arguing that meeting the challenges of climate change may entail reforms of economic. social and political systems. These systems change all the time and are deliberately changed to reflect circumstances. [/QUOTE] Personally, I’d prefer global warming over authoritarianism. If the choice is between ice caps or democracy, fuck the polar bears. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/6 "2008-03-14T11:36:56Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] Personally, I’d prefer global warming over authoritarianism. If the choice is between ice caps or democracy, fuck the polar bears. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because it’s _soo_ much easier to overthrow nature than it is an oppressive government. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/7 "2008-03-14T11:43:12Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Yeah, because it’s _soo_ much easier to overthrow nature than it is an oppressive government. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Of course, the _only_ way we can be certain that the environment **is** being protected is with a free and open government. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/8 "2008-03-14T11:45:26Z")
Shove your rolleyes up your arse you fucking cunt. Calling for the end of liberal democracy because of global warming is the stupidest fucking idea I’ve ever heard. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/9 "2008-03-14T12:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] Calling for the end of liberal democracy because of global warming is the stupidest fucking idea I’ve ever heard. Jesus. [/QUOTE] Yeah, all we really have to do is get rid of that so-called ‘free market’ capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/10 "2008-03-14T13:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] {snip}fuck the polar bears. [/QUOTE] No thanks, they have sharp teeth and claws and could possibly eat me when I was done. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/11 "2008-03-14T13:45:01Z")
In spite of a the foaming-at-the-mouth rage in here, the authors of the book are not wrong. If climate change/AGW are indeed real and as serious as doomsayers say they are, by the time democratic governments with their overbloated bureaucracies get around to doing anything about it it will be far, far too late. Since this is exactly what is going to happen, and I do believe that we are quite a ways up shit creek, I think we’re in for a very rough ride. ETA: Forgot the lobby groups who make your unwieldy system even more nimble. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/12 "2008-03-14T13:55:35Z")
Or the crypto-fascists of the environmental movement are seizing on global warming as an excuse to gain power. I find myself in firm agreement with **Dominic Mulligan**. Let me keep my freedom. Then I can make a killing selling oceanfront property in Nevada. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/13 "2008-03-14T14:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Moonbats, utter moonbats. [/QUOTE] How fortunate that moonbats are so rare, and only associated with Climate Change. Just think how unfortunate it would be if there were to be moonbats associated with topics like gun control, birth control, vaccination, organic food, sexual preferences, anchovy pizza preferences, or anything else for that matter. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/14 "2008-03-14T14:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=slaphead] moonbats associated with…anchovy pizza preferences [/QUOTE] I thought that went without saying… ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/15 "2008-03-14T14:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] In spite of a the foaming-at-the-mouth rage in here, the authors of the book are not wrong. If climate change/AGW are indeed real and as serious as doomsayers say they are, by the time democratic governments with their overbloated bureaucracies get around to doing anything about it it will be far, far too late. Since this is exactly what is going to happen, and I do believe that we are quite a ways up shit creek, I think we’re in for a very rough ride. ETA: Forgot the lobby groups who make your unwieldy system even more nimble. [/QUOTE] I do not think that authoritarian governments are any less bloated and bureacratic than democracies, and they are certainly a lot less nimble. And since the populace will not have any voice or choice, the authoritarian government does not have any checks in their power, but more worrying they don’t have to care what people think of their efforts, right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/16 "2008-03-14T14:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] …I can make a killing selling oceanfront property in Nevada… [/QUOTE] What you gonna do with your money, son, eat it? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/17 "2008-03-14T14:08:36Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] What you gonna do with your money, son, eat it? [/QUOTE] The way things are going with the dollar, that may soon be a necessary alternative… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/18 "2008-03-14T14:08:46Z")
I remember a Philosophy teacher (very good guy, actually) once started in telling me how it was all some right-wing politican’s idea back in the 80’s to link “Green” and “Red” politics, blah blah… I didn’t have the heart to tell him I’d never heard of the guy he mentioned (some big Reaganaut) and that I’d made up my own mind. Sure, I’ev heard others bandy the idea abut, but I noticed right quic there were some Greens whose ideas seemed to come straight out of the Moscow Playbook. Freaky. What was funny is that most of them seemed incapable of doing things to actual help the environemtn. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/19 "2008-03-14T14:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] In spite of a the foaming-at-the-mouth rage in here, the authors of the book are not wrong. If climate change/AGW are indeed real and as serious as doomsayers say they are, by the time democratic governments with their overbloated bureaucracies get around to doing anything about it it will be far, far too late. Since this is exactly what is going to happen, and I do believe that we are quite a ways up shit creek, I think we’re in for a very rough ride. [/quote] Right. Regardless of what you think of the book’s conclusions, I think you have to admit that democracy probably isn’t too well-equipped to deal with this particular problem - or at least that it has not handled it well so far. Scienctific debate and democracy can be an uneasy combination. That’s worth discussing. Does it justify enviro-faciscm? No. But unless you reject the AGW concept altogether, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that we are approaching or in too-little-too-late territory. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345/20 "2008-03-14T14:39:47Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Or the crypto-fascists of the environmental movement are seizing on global warming as an excuse to gain power. I find myself in firm agreement with **Dominic Mulligan**. Let me keep my freedom. Then I can make a killing selling oceanfront property in Nevada. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Don’t worry, I’ve got a nice chunk with your name on it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-hail-fascism/441345.md?page=2)