# Climate change is not the immediate threat facing us today **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737 "2021-01-29T03:30:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/201 "2021-02-15T22:01:58Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Carbon taxes should become the ultimate, and ultimately the most expensive, sin tax. I would agree, if carbon taxes went directly to developing carbon-free sources of energy (e.g. fusion, geothermal, wind, solar). If this sin tax goes to a general pool of $$ our politicians get to spend, I would disagree. I think the bottom line is that it has to become economical to upgrade our energy supply to non-polluting sources. The sooner the better. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/202 "2021-02-15T22:07:54Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I would agree, if carbon taxes went directly to developing carbon-free sources of energy (e.g. fusion, geothermal, wind, solar). If this sin tax goes to a general pool of $$ our politicians get to spend, I would disagree. Meh, the former is more efficient for green development but the latter is still better than not imposing the carbon taxes. The main point is to get carbon pricing to reflect the true cost of using it: what the tax money gets spent on is ultimately a secondary consideration. > [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I think the bottom line is that it has to become economical to upgrade our energy supply to non-polluting sources. The sooner the better. Yup, and what will produce that result is using carbon taxes to un-distort the market for energy. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/203 "2021-02-16T21:50:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup, and what will produce that result is using carbon taxes to un-distort the market for energy. I see your point. The price the consumer pays for energy currently doesn’t include the damages cheaper energy sources inflict on the planet. It’s our responsibility as citizens to vote for politicians who will ensure the tax will be used for developing better energy options. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/204 "2021-02-16T21:59:31Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I see your point. The price the consumer pays for energy currently doesn’t include the damages cheaper energy sources inflict on the planet. Right, what the economists call “negative externalities”. In fossil-fuel production and consumption, a lot of the real costs are off-loaded onto parties external to the transaction (namely, the environment and its users), so the price paid in the transaction is artificially low. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/205 "2021-02-16T23:33:56Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I would agree, if carbon taxes went directly to developing carbon-free sources of energy (e.g. fusion, geothermal, wind, solar). If this sin tax goes to a general pool of $$ our politicians get to spend, I would disagree. Yes. Carbon tax revenue should be earmarked for mitigating global warming and/or r&d on green energy or related green activities. But the taxes also have value if they are merely punitive. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/206 "2021-02-17T20:35:38Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I think the bottom line is that it has to become economical to upgrade our energy supply to non-polluting sources. The sooner the better. That’s true, but it seems (once again) inconsistent with your earlier ranting that climate change is NOT the most important threat facing humanity, and that things like endocrine disruptors in the water supply are more important (never mind that climate change is a threat to the _ **entire** _ global hydrological system). I’ll stop calling you a troll if and when you ever develop a consistent and rational set of beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/207 "2021-02-17T23:31:02Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But the taxes also have value if they are merely punitive. I agree that the costs of highly-polluting energy sources need to include the environmental and health-care costs associated with their manufacture and use. But if the taxes are merely punitive, they’re not helping fix the problem as well as they could be, because these costs are just passed on to the consumer. Increasing energy costs can also have serious negative political and economic ramifications. I’m not sure if punitive measures alone will result in the incentives for investment in carbon-free energy options that I think has to happen before we will see significant improvements. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/208 "2021-02-18T13:20:55Z")
When gas prices spiked in the mid 00s it shifted the demand for SUVs and trucks to more fuel efficient vehicles. That wasn’t planned, but a gas tax increase would have the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/209 "2021-02-18T13:48:23Z")
If you want to decrease smoking, could putting a tax on tobacco products help to achieve that goal? Would it be necessary to use the raised funds for anti-smoking awareness PSA’s? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/210 "2021-02-18T19:02:15Z")
For an analogy, think of a punitive tax being something pushing an object along a path. If you have someone pulling from the other side (those taxes being earmarked to fund environmental projects) that object moves even faster. But it’s not like it wouldn’t move regardless. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/211 "2021-02-19T00:03:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you want to decrease smoking, could putting a tax on tobacco products help to achieve that goal? That’s a really good question. Oregon implemented a 2 tax on a pack of cigarettes this year. A buddy of mine says he's smoking less because each cigarette costs .5 and he can’t afford that, and it pisses him off. But using the same logic on energy consumption is difficult because of the greater impacts on the economy, not to mention politics. Oregon justified the tax increase by saying it’s to pay for increased health costs for smokers. My guess is the tax revenues won’t all go to health costs. ETA How do you do ‘$’ ? ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/212 "2021-02-19T00:09:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > For an analogy, think of a punitive tax being something pushing an object along a path. If you have someone pulling from the other side (those taxes being earmarked to fund environmental projects) that object moves even faster. But it’s not like it wouldn’t move regardless. But why wouldn’t the tax be earmarked to fund green energy technologies? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/213 "2021-02-19T00:10:39Z")
Because politics. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/214 "2021-02-19T00:12:44Z")
Would you mind elaborating on that? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/215 "2021-02-19T00:13:42Z")
$? Hold the shift key down and then hit the 4 key. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/216 "2021-02-19T00:13:48Z")
No, I don’t feel like explaining US politics. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/217 "2021-02-19T00:15:26Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > $? Hold the shift key down and then hit the 4 key. $2 I did try that… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/218 "2021-02-19T00:15:35Z")
State budgets are unpredictable and they don’t want to earmark budgets when they can’t print their own currency. Moreover, the climate isn’t just a state problem; it’s a global problem. No individual state is going to fall on their budgetary sword and put themselves in a financial straightjacket. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/219 "2021-02-19T00:20:29Z")
Your post shows up as: > $2 I did try that… Perhaps it’s an encoding issue on your browser. Did you check the browser settings? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737/220 "2021-02-19T00:28:36Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But the taxes also have value if they are merely punitive. A carbon tax should not be thought of as punitive in the same way as cigarette taxes or soda taxes. Users of the latter–at least in the US, with no universal health care–do not impose significant costs on the rest of us. They get lung disease or obesity and die early but mostly the rest of us do not pay for it. That is unlike CO2, which imposes huge costs on civilization. The carbon tax is to put a price on that cost, and the proceeds (ideally) should be used to counteract those costs, whether it’s to pay for hurricane damage or constructing sea walls or simply paying for the tax loss from people dying early. The net result is the same of course; the higher price encourages people to seek alternatives. But people rebel against punishments for good reason, as they can seem arbitrary. Charging for the externality cost however is not arbitrary at all; it’s drawing a direct line between emitting a pollutant and others suffering an economic loss as a result. Even hard-core libertarians should support, if not a carbon tax, at least a carbon market (which would behave similarly). Well, honest hard-core libertarians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-is-not-the-immediate-threat-facing-us-today/931737.md?page=12)