# "Climate Change" Was Supposed to Spawn Monster Storms-What Happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982 "2013-05-10T12:10:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/221 "2013-06-09T01:26:23Z")
It’s spelled Edgar Cayce, sorry and yes SD has covered his observations:[What’s the scoop on Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet"? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1874/whats-the-scoop-on-edgar-cayce-the-sleeping-prophet) What’s the scoop on Edgar Cayce, the “Sleeping Prophet”? January 16, 2001 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/222 "2013-06-09T06:53:31Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > It’s spelled Edgar Cayce, sorry and yes SD has covered his observations:[http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1874/whats-the-scoop-on-edgar-cayce-the-sleeping-prophet](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1874/whats-the-scoop-on-edgar-cayce-the-sleeping-prophet) > > What’s the scoop on Edgar Cayce, the “Sleeping Prophet”? > > January 16, 2001 What’s the scoop? Even the cite there already is telling us: > [@](#): > > Let’s move on briefly to some other areas where Cayce tried to use his vast psychic powers. One example discussed in detail by Randi is Cayce’s extraordinary failure in divining information about the Lindbergh kidnapping case. I bet you won’t find too many Cayce supporters talking about that one. > > Another failure was his attempt to find buried treasure. After several weeks of trying, with the additional help of a well-known dowser, he found nothing. The only thing they had to show for their work was excuses. Some of these are hysterical, such as the one about ghosts of Native Americans and pirates playing tricks with the psychic energy, or the claim that the treasure had been there but was already dug up by somebody else, or maybe it would be buried there at some future date. It’s amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn’t tell the difference between the past, present, and future. > > Another amusing prediction was that the U.S. would discover an Atlantean death ray (as in, one from Atlantis) in 1958. I suppose his supporters might claim the government actually did find it, but it’s hidden away with the aliens from Roswell due to its dangerous nature. > > The point is that, as with every other well-known “psychic” I’ve seen/heard about/read about, the claims simply don’t stand up to scrutiny. The reasons for the weather change coming from Casey are not the correct ones so I’m not impressed about a “psychic” that gets it wrong virtually all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/223 "2013-06-09T12:33:59Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Scylla and Charybdis. We thread the middle, somewhere, and accept losses on both sides. The climate will get nasty, and many will die. The economy will suffer, and many will be unemployed. > > But it’s better than having the climate explode entirely…or dismantling industrial civilization entirely. Since neither of those is acceptable, we have to figure out a course somewhere in between. > > i.e., has anyone actually claimed that doing something short of eliminating all carbon-producing activity “won’t change the outcome?” Strikes me as something I don’t believe anyone actually has argued. Reducing carbon emission (and taking some other steps) might do some good, without slamming the economy to the mat. Yes they have, but I can’t give a link as it was on a talk show and I didn’t notice the name of the show. I have no problem with reducing my carbon output- I use public transport as much as possible for a start. However, I refuse to take the whole scenario seriously as our politicians do nothing other than introduce pointless taxes to actually make a difference. When they stop jetting off for talk fests in foreign countries, and start using the train in their own country I’ll become engaged. Obama likes to play up his pro alternative energy policies, but continues to fly around the US in his plane/ helicopter etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/224 "2013-06-09T14:25:41Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Yes they have, but I can’t give a link as it was on a talk show and I didn’t notice the name of the show. > > I have no problem with reducing my carbon output- I use public transport as much as possible for a start. > However, I refuse to take the whole scenario seriously as our politicians do nothing other than introduce pointless taxes to actually make a difference. > When they stop jetting off for talk fests in foreign countries, and start using the train in their own country I’ll become engaged. > Obama likes to play up his pro alternative energy policies, but continues to fly around the US in his plane/ helicopter etc. Very, very true. If Obama were \*truly \*serious about reducing emissions, he’d be \*walking \*everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/225 "2013-06-09T16:20:40Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Yes they have, but I can’t give a link as it was on a talk show and I didn’t notice the name of the show. > > I have no problem with reducing my carbon output- I use public transport as much as possible for a start. > However, I refuse to take the whole scenario seriously as our politicians do nothing other than introduce pointless taxes to actually make a difference. Cite for that? That would had actually be progress on this front. > [@Doggo](#): > > When they stop jetting off for talk fests in foreign countries, and start using the train in their own country I’ll become engaged. > Obama likes to play up his pro alternative energy policies, but continues to fly around the US in his plane/ helicopter etc. And this is once again the “wealthy popularizer” red herring, typically directed at people like Al Gore. > **[Is Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth accurate?](https://skepticalscience.com/al-gore-inconvenient-truth-errors-basic.htm)** > > \While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science.\ > [@](#): > > Note: the vilification of Al Gore is best understood in the context of personalisation. When opponents attack something abstract - like science - the public may not associate with the argument. By giving a name and a face and a set of behavioural characteristics - being a rich politician, for example - it is easy to create a fictional enemy through inference and association. Al Gore is a successful politician who presented a film, his training and experience suitable to the task. To invoke Gore is a way to obfuscate about climate science, for which Gore has neither responsibility, claim nor blame. Indeed, just another excuse to not do anything and ignoring that a tax will also affect those rich popularizers. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/226 "2013-06-09T17:22:35Z")
Going back to the OP: It was supposed to, but it didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/227 "2013-06-09T17:39:08Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Going back to the OP: It was supposed to, but it didn’t. And showing to all that you did not read the thread, **the OP was a straw man** , the actual thing the scientists report is that there is no trend on the number of monster storms coming. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/228 "2013-06-09T18:30:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And showing to all that you did not read the thread, **the OP was a straw man** , the actual thing the scientists report is that there is no trend on the number of monster storms coming. What does, “the OP was a straw man” mean? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/229 "2013-06-09T18:44:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > What does, “the OP was a straw man” mean? > **[Definition of STRAW MAN](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straw%20man)** > > a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted; a person set up to serve as a cover for a usually questionable transaction… See the full definition > [@](#): > > 1 > : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted The imaginary thing was to claim that the scientists were reporting that the number of hurricanes was increasing, when in reality the scientists report and most agree that there is no trend on the number of storms coming. What scientists found evidence is that even the usual number nature will send us are bound to be more intense because more energy and matter are present in the background. > **[The connection between Hurricane Sandy and global warming](https://skepticalscience.com/hurricane-sandy-global-warming.htm)** > > Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism. Common objections like 'global warming is caused by the sun', 'temperature has changed naturally in the past' or 'other planets are warming too' are examined to see what the science... > [@](#): > > What the science says… > > There are several ways in which human-caused global warming contributed to the damage caused by Hurricane Sandy - by causing higher sea levels (bigger storm surges and flooding), warmer oceans (a stronger hurricane), and more moisture in the air (more flooding). The key word is “spawn” as in originating or source and the OP made clear that it was referring to the number of hurricanes increasing, the straw man was to setup the false idea that climate scientists did agree that hurricanes were going to increase, the problem was that the few that reported on the increase were shot down already by many other experts, hence the point was an imaginary one made with the purpose of discrediting the science and denying what the scientists are actually reporting. That, and Edgar Cayce was loopy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/230 "2013-06-09T19:43:38Z")
Here’s more insight on the El Nino of 97/98:[http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2013-fire-year.html](http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2013-fire-year.html) > [@](#): > > In 2012, climate conditions were less favorable for burning. Sea surface temperatures in the Central Pacific and North Atlantic were cooler than normal, which lead to increased rainfall across the southern Amazon in the months preceding the fire season. > > The opposite occurred in 1997 and 1998, when warm surface waters in the Pacific Ocean brought about by El Niño pushed rainfall systems north, leaving parts of the southern and eastern Amazon forest dry and prone to fires. > > **"The 1997-98 El Niño was one of the most important fire years** , and put fire on everyone’s map for the potential impacts of deforestation and tropical forest degradation from human activities," said Morton. The season also spurred Randerson and colleagues to pursue research on the global impact of fire emissions. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/231 "2013-06-10T01:06:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And showing to all that you did not read the thread, **the OP was a straw man** , the actual thing the scientists report is that there is no trend on the number of monster storms coming. Ok. whatever the OP: 1. No more cat 3/4/5 hurricanes 2. No more total cyclone energy. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/232 "2013-06-10T01:31:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > What does, “the OP was a straw man” mean? An honest answer to that question would be a welcome change. “Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.” —Richard Feynman > [@](#): > > Prior to the 2005 North Atlantic hurricane season, Trenberth (2005) published a commentary in Science raising the issue as to whether the increase in North Atlantic hurricane activity since 1995 could be attributed to global warming. > **[HurricanesAndPolitics.pdf](https://patarnott.com/atms749/pdf/HurricanesAndPolitics.pdf)** > > 509.04 KB > [@](#): > > Statistical analysis of historical tropical cyclone intensity shows a robust > relationship to the thermodynamic potential intensity (Emanuel 2000), suggesting that increasing potential intensity should lead to an increase in the actual intensity of storms [http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/HurrGlobalWarm.pdf](http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/HurrGlobalWarm.pdf) > [@](#): > > Higher ocean surface temperatures. Scientists have looked at potential correlations between ocean temperatures and tropical cyclone trends worldwide over the past several decades. A 2005 study published in the journal Nature examined the duration and maximum wind speeds of each tropical cyclone that formed over the last 30 years and found that their destructive power has increased around 70 percent in both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. (13,14) [http://www.ucsusa.org/global\_warming/science\_and\_impacts/science/hurricanes-and-climate-change.html](http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/hurricanes-and-climate-change.html) > [@](#): > > The new study of hurricanes and warming “is by far and away the most comprehensive effort” to assess the question using powerful computer simulations, said Dr. Kerry A. Emanuel, a hurricane expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who has seen the paper but did not work on it. About the link between the warming of tropical oceans and storm intensity, he said, “This clinches the issue.” [http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/30/science/30hurricane.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/30/science/30hurricane.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > CHANGES IN CLIMATE AND TROPICAL CYCLONES. …There is little doubt that the recently observed increases are due to anthropogenic effects (Meehl et al. 2004), and models project these increases to continue well into this century under all plausible scenarios of greenhouse gas emissions (Houghton et al. 2001) > **[2005.36\_comment.pdf](https://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/publications/special/2005.36_comment.pdf)** > > 326.75 KB ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/233 "2013-06-10T01:34:58Z")
One thing about being able to search and look at the past, it’s very difficult for somebody to lie about something that was published, and get away with it. If anyone tries to tell you more and worse hurricanes were not predicted, and that “global warming” wasn’t the “cause”, you can be sure they are in denial of reality. There a thousand more sources that say exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/234 "2013-06-10T01:38:50Z")
Well I would think that one should not wish show to all that one is an ignorant on the meaning of what “not a trend”\* is. But that is just me. - ( **it does not mean that there will be no more hurricanes** , it just means that there will be no more or less than the average number we see, and one should read the last Skeptical Science link to see that the impact of even a cat 1 has increased thanks to all the energy and material that has been added in the background) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/235 "2013-06-10T01:44:24Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > An honest answer to that question would be a welcome change. > > “Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.” > —Richard Feynman > > [http://patarnott.com/atms749/pdf/HurricanesAndPolitics.pdf](http://patarnott.com/atms749/pdf/HurricanesAndPolitics.pdf) > > [http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/HurrGlobalWarm.pdf](http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/HurrGlobalWarm.pdf) > > [http://www.ucsusa.org/global\_warming/science\_and\_impacts/science/hurricanes-and-climate-change.html](http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/hurricanes-and-climate-change.html) > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/30/science/30hurricane.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/30/science/30hurricane.html?_r=0) > > [http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/publications/special/2005.36\_comment.pdf](http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/publications/special/2005.36_comment.pdf) Of course, reading comprehension is also needed, most of the papers deal indeed with the increase of intensity, not an increase of the numbers, just as mi point and the current understanding is, the rise of the straw man just continues. And only one that thinks that papers from the past can never be dismissed with more up to date evidence is just telling others that the climate scientists are not doing science, they are. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/236 "2013-06-10T02:01:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > One thing about being able to search and look at the past, it’s very difficult for somebody to lie about something that was published, and get away with it. > > If anyone tries to tell you more and worse hurricanes were not predicted, and that “global warming” wasn’t the “cause”, you can be sure they are in denial of reality. There a thousand more sources that say exactly that. Good to know that is precisely the point I and many scientists are making, but the straw man has to be propped up. Once again: Worse hurricanes \*\*are \*\*predicted because an increase in the energy and material in the background, that increase in intensity has already been detected. The OP claimed that the scientists told us the numbers of the hurricanes would increase, that is false. The truth is more nuanced and while there is a silver lining (so far) that the number of hurricanes will not increase in a warming world the increase in intensity of the regular number that will come is just another reason why CO2 emissions should be controlled. Incidentally the other more likely problems the increase in GWG will bring are already being detected and they are still an issue, like the increase in regional droughts, Melting of the ice, rise of the oceans, ocean acidification, crop loss, etc. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/237 "2013-06-13T12:52:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The OP claimed that the scientists told us the numbers of the hurricanes would increase, that is false. The truth is more nuanced and while there is a silver lining (so far) that the number of hurricanes will not increase in a warming world the increase in intensity of the regular number that will come Just wanted to pop back in and add: 1. I still have no idea what hypothetical evidence could prove you wrong on this count. 2. I’m not sure anyone can say. **Ají de Gallina** certainly can’t; **FXMastermind** certainly can’t; people keep bringing up points you dismiss as irrelevant, but you never seem to spell out what _would_ be relevant. I get that each year from now until the end of the century could involve the number of hurricanes staying the same or dropping a bit – and the number of Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes likewise, and the number of Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes hitting land likewise, all while tornadoes maybe plummet to nothing – and still you could stamp your foot and insist you were right all along; that it was never about the number of hurricanes, but their intensity. But what could make you admit you were dead wrong about _intensity_ increasing? You don’t say; you rule some things out, but rule nothing in. If you’d like to clarify – or if anyone reading this thread feels they can divine your answer – I’d love to hear it, so I can see whether it happens to occur. > [@](#): > > just another reason why CO2 emissions should be controlled. Incidentally the other more likely problems the increase in GWG will bring are already being detected and they are still an issue, like the increase in regional droughts, And here we go again. An _“increase in regional droughts,”_ he says. If there are more such droughts in years to come, doubtless you’ll declare victory; if fewer, doubtless you’ll say it’s the not the number but the intensity of said droughts. (And if someone asks, ahead of time, what hypothetical evidence would prove you wrong about those droughts? Why, you can of course refuse to provide any specifics about falsification – as you now do with regard to the intensity of hurricanes.) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/238 "2013-06-13T16:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > FXMastermind certainly can’t I stopped even trying. If reality won’t sway somebody, then no amount of logic or reason will matter. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/239 "2013-06-13T19:57:52Z")
Sure, more cluelessness from the usual. So, no other quote from the scientists to demonstrate that there is even support for other interpretations, for a point that is not mine. And FXMastermind is still pretending that he can ignore all the evidence that shows he is pathetically \*\*demonstrating \*\*the point I’m making and he thinks that he is contradicting me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982/240 "2013-06-13T20:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure, more cluelessness from the usual. > > So, no other quote from the scientists to demonstrate that there is even support for other interpretations, for a point that is not mine. No, see, we’re not at that point yet; we can’t look for “other interpretations” until we actually know what your point is. It’s the old bit about how _“ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them”_: nobody can refute you – not with facts, and not with quotes about facts – until you mention what you think a decrease in intensity would look like. You’re not ruling out a decrease in the number of hurricanes – or the number of Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes, or the number of Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes relative to all hurricanes, or the number of Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes hitting land; those, we could measure. Instead, you’re predicting an increase in intensity; _what does that mean?_ How will we know if you’re wrong? What’s the opposite of your prediction? You don’t say. We can’t tell. You reject points as irrelevant – instead of spelling out what would be relevant. You fault me for not using my imagination about your vague position – when you could provide specifics. > [@](#): > > And FXMastermind is still pretending that he can ignore all the evidence that shows he is pathetically demonstrating the point I’m making and he thinks that he is contradicting me. I wrote that (a) I have no idea what evidence could even _hypothetically_ prove your prediction wrong, and that (b) FXMastermind likewise can’t say; FXMastermind’s reply: _“I stopped even trying.”_ It’d sure be hard for either of us to think we’re contradicting you; we don’t know what your position is. (I added that, if anyone here can say what you think would falsify your position, I’d love to hear it. I repeat the invitation: if anybody believes you’ve made an actual prediction about what’s to come with hurricane intensity, they can easily prove it: mention what, at a minimum, would have to occur in years to come before we can say, _Yep, GIGObuster was completely incorrect; the exact opposite happened._) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-was-supposed-to-spawn-monster-storms-what-happened/657982.md?page=13)