# Climate Scientists are Mass Murderers!!!One1 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909 "2012-05-04T18:46:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/101 "2012-05-08T15:19:46Z")
And as to what indeed the good sources report: There is plenty of information that shows that the “check for yourself” is indeed just playing pretend, as shown, many do fall for the false sense of security they get from a denier source that expects many to not bother to check for themselves. > **[DenialGate Highlights Heartland's Selective NIPCC Science](https://skepticalscience.com/denialgate-highlights-heartlands-selective-nipcc-science.html)** > > DenialGate - the leaked internal documents from the climate science denying think tank Heartland Institute - has given us a small glimpse into the operations of the climate denial movement.  Funds from a few wealthy individuals and corporations are... > [@](#): > > As another example, the 2009 NIPCC report has an entire sub-section devoted to global warming “fingerprints,” and yet it only discusses one - the tropical troposphere “hot spot” (a part of the atmosphere expected to warm particularly fast as a result of global warming). The NIPCC report has no mention of the many actual fingerprints of human-caused global warming which have been observed (Skeptical Science discusses 10 here). Instead, the NIPCC focuses on the one fingerprint which may be missing, even though it’s a fingerprint of any global warming, and is not specific to human-caused warming. > > Climate scientists Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt have also documented a number of the long-debunked climate myths propagated in previous NIPCC reports, which we have rebutted by examining the full body of scientific literature at Skeptical Science (click the links below for the myth debunkings): > > ``` > Hockey stick is broken > CO2 lags temperature > Temp record is unreliable > Models are unreliable > It's a natural cycle > It's the sun > Sea level rise predictions are exaggerated > CO2 increase is natural, not human-caused > It's not bad > > ``` > > In addition to being long-debunked myths, several of these arguments contradict each other. For example, arguing that the planet isn’t warming, but it’s warming because of the sun, and it’s warming because of natural cycles, and warming is good anyway. The report also argues that the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was warmer than today; however, if the planet is sensitive to the factors which caused the MWP, then it’s also sensitive to greenhouse gas changes, which contradicts the “climate sensitivity is low” argument. > > Summary > > To sum up, IPCC mainstream climate science is about taking an accurate, comprehensive view of the entire body of climate science evidence, which inevitably leads to the conclusion that humans are causing dangerously rapid global warming. The overall strength of the evidence supporting the human-caused global warming theory is the reason the scientific consensus exists. > > Rather than taking this sort of broad overall view of the scientific evidence, the Heartland Institute pays its scientists to disregard most climate science research and focus exclusively on the few “skeptic” studies which support their very narrow focus on poking holes in the IPCC report. > > The difference between the two groups could not be more clear. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/102 "2012-05-08T15:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Again, context is king, just as Snopes did not said so, when we \*\*do \*\*check the sources we find that indeed Headland and their minions are lying even about the “check for yourself” item, in this context it is made precisely for people like you that demonstrate a total lack of looking for good information. [/QUOTE] I demonstrated my desire to look for good information when repeatedly asking you for that third prediction. Did I then keep asking for it once you’d supplied it? Of course not; I’d already heard what you had to say on the subject, I didn’t disagree with you, I saw no need to keep looking. And so, likewise: > [@](#): > > The fact that nowhere you show that you are checking for the facts elsewhere, you see, there is a method to this madness, I just need to show all that indeed you are just not willing to check good sources, indeed with your latest posts you are admitting that you are not doing the “check for yourself” thing. So, too, does this situation run parallel to how I stopped asking you for that third prediction: I’ve already heard what you have to say on the subject, I didn’t disagree with your answer, I see no need to keep looking. If you and I someday _ **disagree** _ over a different claim – possibly, as you say, over whether _“Snopes did not said so”_ – then, sure, when that day comes, task me with finding evidence. But on this topic, in this thread, where we don’t disagree? You’re all the source I need. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/103 "2012-05-08T15:28:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But on this topic, in this thread, where we don’t disagree? You’re all the source I need. And so we come to what was my main meta point, you are an idiot for just relying on a poster in a message board. And I thank you for your admission. Check the science, what the experts say, learn to Google, and learn that most of your points were already regurgitated by deniers and already debunked many times. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/104 "2012-05-08T15:29:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And so we come to what was my main meta point, you are an idiot for just relying on a poster in a message board. A poster who posts links! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/105 "2012-05-08T15:30:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > A poster who posts links! And you never learn or check them, keep digging, as I said before, I do not mind that all are finding what an incompetent at even doing goggle searchers and at identifying good sources you are. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/106 "2012-05-08T15:34:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And you never learn or check them Ah, another false claim from you; delightful as always. You supply enough true ones – with cites! – to make it worth my while; keep on keeping on. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/107 "2012-05-08T15:38:48Z")
Just KISS already. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/108 "2012-05-08T15:39:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Ah, another false claim from you; delightful as always. You supply enough true ones – with cites! – to make it worth my while; keep on keeping on. Uhuh, if it is false, you would not had replied with the silly “third falsification” you think I have, it is from the IPCC, so your lack of any mention of what the scientists did say demonstrates that I’m correct about you. In fact there should be no need to refer to me as we can check what the science says, and not just repeat what a bloke on the internet that is not an expert said. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/109 "2012-05-08T15:45:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Uhuh, if it is false, you would not had replied with the silly “third falsification” you think I have, it is from the IPCC Yes, I know. That came up in the thread – indeed, the post – where you relayed it, after disavowing your previous two. I clicked on the link as soon as you supplied it! > [@](#): > > so your lack of any mention of what the scientists did say demonstrates that I’m correct about you. Nonsense. At best, it proves I’d never clicked on that link before you’d offered it, and says nothing about whether I read it afterward; at worst, it fails to even rule out whether I’d clicked on it before. For the record, no, I didn’t click on it until that thread – at which point I clicked on it and read avidly, despite your lie to the contrary. > [@](#): > > In fact there should be no need to refer to me as we can check what the science says, and not just repeat what a bloke on the internet that is not an expert said. But you got it right! All I had to do was ask, and you – eventually – supplied a link to the perfect cite, while agreeing that their criterion happened to be your own! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/110 "2012-05-08T15:49:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Just KISS already. You kiss him, but be careful he will get you more than cooties. Of course for that he needs to get out of his basement, l[ook at the big world out there that has been pointed at for him many times before](http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php) and just now he claims that that big world is worthy for him, but we know that he will ignore it once again. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/111 "2012-05-08T15:50:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Yes, I know. That came up in the thread – indeed, the post – where you relayed it, after disavowing your previous two. I clicked on the link as soon as you supplied it! Still no link or specific reference to what the scientists said, pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/112 "2012-05-08T15:50:40Z")
The Heartland Institute’s billboards are moronic. Pure stupidity, really. Kind of like predictions of catastrophic 5 to 7 (or even 10, in the not distant past) degree warming that will never come to pass (e.g., due to decreased effects from incremental CO2 and unproven positive feedback estimates that seem to [get lower](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8483722.stm) as unmaintainable alarmist models gets shot down). Anyway, please carry on and resume your regularly scheduled climate-related hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/113 "2012-05-08T15:53:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > just now he claims that that big world is worthy for him, but we know he will ignore them once again. Ah, another false claim. It’s quite striking, really; I put lots of time and effort into getting truthful answers from you, and you put lots of time and effort into making false claims along the way. I advise you to check your priorities – and to supply answers more readily if someone else has the good sense to ask you for a falsifiable prediction. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/114 "2012-05-08T15:54:13Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > The Heartland Institute’s billboards are moronic. Pure stupidity, really. Kind of like predictions of catastrophic 5 to 7 (or even 10, in the not distant past) degree warming that will never come to pass (e.g., due to decreased effects from incremental CO2 and unproven positive feedback estimates that seem to [get lower](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8483722.stm) as unmaintainable alarmist models gets shot down). > > Anyway, please carry on and resume your regularly scheduled climate-related hysteria. > [@](#): > > The IPCC’s fourth assessment report had a broad range of estimates as to how far natural systems would contribute to a spiral of warming. The Nature paper narrows that range to the lower end of previous estimates. As reported by other studies, they agree with the conservative estimates of the IPCC. Of curse that does not stop mass murderers of logic to still claim that the IPCC is alarmist. Not to mention that the study does depend also on the application of paleoclimate data, that is proxy reconstructions like the one Mann and others did, but never mind that logic says that deniers should then should accept the science behind the Hockey stick, they will continue to believe in more contradictions like a catholic before breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/115 "2012-05-08T16:00:30Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Yes, I know. That came up in the thread – indeed, the post – where you relayed it, after disavowing your previous two. I clicked on the link as soon as you supplied it! > > Still no link or specific reference to what the scientists said, pathetic. Less pathetic than a flat _ **lie,** _ of course; that’s your department. Still – what, you want a “specific reference” to what they said? Their prediction would be falsified if we see less than a tenth-of-a-degree-per-decade rise, with '07 listed as the first such starting point laid out in the link you posted. You agreed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/116 "2012-05-08T16:12:59Z")
Meh, just repeating and expecting a different result. Going forward, **neuroman** is indeed blissfully unaware that what the science reports means that many deniers myths should be dismissed as they are no longer operative as Nixon would say. The fact that denier sites are seeing reports that are relying on Paleoclimate that gives a low sensibility, should then logically make them change their tune regarding the Hockey Stick, the medieval warm period, that climate changed in the past just like today. But they are not, sites like WUWT still malign paleoclimatologists, the fact is that they are still actively denying the most important element that allows scientists in recent studies to say that the low ends of the predictions (still not good as pointed many times before) are the most likely thing that we will see in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/117 "2012-05-08T18:28:17Z")
Sounds like the _Heartland Institute_ have spent too much time out the midday sun. Possibly in a greenhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/118 "2012-05-09T03:11:35Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > These folks put the ‘rat’ in irrational. HEY! I have two pet rats at home, and to the best of my knowledge they have never done anything as dazzlingly stupid as the Heartland ads. Leave the unjustified name-calling out of it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909/119 "2012-05-09T03:46:34Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > HEY! > > I have two pet rats at home, and to the best of my knowledge they have never done anything as dazzlingly stupid as the Heartland ads. Leave the unjustified name-calling out of it. Yeah, rats are better than that, and speaking of rats abandoning ship: > **[Brad Johnson Pins the Contributions on Heartland](http://rabett.blogspot.com/2012/05/brad-johnson-pins-contributions-on.html)** > > UPDATE:  Stones roll downhill, crush Heartland .  Insurance and other sponsors throw in the towel Brad Johnson has a piterest page up wit... > [@](#): > > Brad Johnson Pins the Contributions on Heartland > > UPDATE: Stones roll downhill, crush Heartland. Insurance and other sponsors throw in the towel > > Brad Johnson has a piterest page up with the names and amounts from corporate donors to Heartland. In the interest of false balance, Eli will utter the number 10 twice so you can go and jump all over Keith, Andy and the guy behind the curtain, but it is interesting to read the list. An awful lot of big pharma, Eli wonders what the connection is in the Casablanca sense? > > Speaking of which, Eli has noted that certain “Heartland Experts” are disassociating themselves Yep, even Roger Pielke Jr. was shocked, and also shocked to find he was was listed as an expert that was on their list. > [@](#): > > Shocked, shocked. (now ,where are my winnings) and how many other of those “Heartland Experts” are really not “Heartland Experts”. Eli leaves it to others to decide how many of them are not experts or at least “experts?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-scientists-are-mass-murderers-one1/620909.md?page=5)