# ClimateGate 2.0? Are you fucking kidding me? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243 "2011-11-27T15:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/161 "2011-11-29T19:07:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sure. > > It goes on from there, but that’s a pretty good starting point: besides not warming, it would need to cool down to some point X – such that cooling down to some point A or B or C wouldn’t do it, even if it never again rose back up to where we are now. > > (Keep reading that thread and he soon clarifies that even said drop to '70s levels would only falsify part of the theory; the whole thing would go out the window if even more cooling resulted, but he’s coy about exactly how much more – short of a second ice age – would suffice.) And this is really beyond retarded, anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature would had accepted that I clarified later that I was humoring TOWP, in other words, that was just really an educated guess. But this demonstrates why dealing with what the scientists actually say is anathema for guys like TOWP, it is easier to claim that the say so’s of the past from a poster contradict what they said today (actually, not much), it is easier to mislead others this way. But it makes it easy to identify the stupid on people like TOWP, so you have my thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/162 "2011-11-29T19:13:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And this is really beyond retarded, anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature would had accepted that I clarified later that I was humoring TOWP, in other words, that was just really an educated guess. Well, (a) can you post a cite to that effect? I’m not much on proving negatives. And (b) that quote wasn’t a reply to me; it was a reply to someone else entirely. > [@](#): > > But this demonstrates why dealing with what the scientists actually say is anathema for guys like TOWP, it is easier to claim that the say so’s of the past from a poster contradict what they said today (actually, not much) It doesn’t contradict at all what you’d said today. You’ve spent this thread refusing to answer my requests for clarification: I repeatedly asked whether that remains your prediction, and you repeatedly said nothing either way about whether you’re now predicting anything different. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/163 "2011-11-29T19:15:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not contributing the one note about falsifiability, as I grant that GIGO’s prediction is falsifiable. I’m instead noting a completely different point: that his falsifiable prediction is perfectly consistent with temperatures declining and then never again rising back up to current levels, which is why I object to calling it “warming”. Buy you’ve already said you don’t quibble with the scientists on this matter, and that you have predictions from other sources. So why are you hounding GIGObuster on this topic? What difference will it make if, again, you already have these things from elsewhere? More importantly, why should I have to sit through all of the repetitive, nonsensical, tedious, _ **bolded AND italicized** _ junk that you spew in your efforts to get redundant information from someone on the internet? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/164 "2011-11-29T19:22:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So why are you hounding GIGObuster on this topic? What difference will it make if, again, you already have these things from elsewhere? Take a look at his latest post: he’s now hinting that he “was humoring TOWP, in other words, that was just really an educated guess.” I merely wanted to know whether that remains his position; he could’ve fired off a brisk “yes” or “no, it’s now XYZ” pages ago, but for some reason didn’t. > [@](#): > > More importantly, why should I have to sit through all of the repetitive, nonsensical, tedious, _ **bolded AND italicized** _ junk that you spew in your efforts to get redundant information from someone on the internet? The efforts are repetitive because the information (a) isn’t forthcoming, and (b) might not be redundant; GIGO has moved goalposts before, and may wish to do so now, and is free to reply with a quick “no, it’s still my position”; had he done so, you would’ve been spared my repetitive efforts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/165 "2011-11-29T19:25:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Buy you’ve already said you don’t quibble with the scientists on this matter, and that you have predictions from other sources. > > So why are you hounding GIGObuster on this topic? What difference will it make if, again, you already have these things from elsewhere? > > More importantly, why should I have to sit through all of the repetitive, nonsensical, tedious, _ **bolded AND italicized** _ junk that you spew in your efforts to get redundant information from someone on the internet? Simple, it is a very trolling tactic, get someone that is not an expert on a subject to make an educated guess, chances are that something in the guess will not be accurate, pounce the hell out of it till kingdom come.. even if TOWP already acknowledged (all right he cried “faul!” like a ref bitten by a banshee) that I was indeed humoring him in later threads. What this demonstrates is even yet another layer of stupid: that he thinks this will not be noticed or that one will not play his game again on later threads. Hence the cowardice on dealing with the science cites, he is impotent at explaining even the basics on why the scientists should be wrong. Or why the independent statisticians are wrong by reporting that it is dishonest to claim that the earth is not warming. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/166 "2011-11-29T19:29:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Simple, it is a very trolling tactic, get someone that is not an expert on a subject to make an educated guess, chances are that something in the guess will not be accurate, pounce the hell out of it till kingdom come. That makes no sense; I’ve said that I expect your guess to be accurate. > [@](#): > > even if TOWP already acknowledged (all right he cried “faul!” like a ref bitten by a banshee) that I was indeed humoring him in later threads. This is the first I’m hearing of it. You’d previously played the I-was-just-humoring-him card when explaining why you wanted to move the goalposts away from your original prediction, but until today I wasn’t aware that you wanted to play the I-was-just-humoring-him card about the “70’s levels” prediction. (Which, again, was your reply to a different poster altogether, rather than one made to me.) > [@](#): > > he is impotent at explaining even the basics on why the scientists should be wrong. Or why the independent statisticians are wrong by reporting that it is dishonest to claim that the earth is not warming. Again, I’ve made clear – right here in this very thread, even – that I don’t dispute that the earth has warmed; I’m therefore mystified as to why you think I should explain why the scientists or the statisticians are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/167 "2011-11-29T19:38:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > This is the first I’m hearing of it. You’d previously played the I-was-just-humoring-him card when explaining why you wanted to move the goalposts away from your original prediction, but until today I wasn’t aware that you wanted to play the I-was-just-humoring-him card about the “70’s levels” prediction. (Which, again, was your reply to a different poster altogether, rather than one made to me.) [Genie of the lamp] That’s right! He can be thought!] [/Gotl] > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Again, I’ve made clear – right here in this very thread, even – that I don’t dispute that the earth has warmed; I’m therefore mystified as to why you think I should explain why the scientists or the statisticians are wrong. Because you are a coward avoiding it, is just that simple. And it is more related to the OP and climategate. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/168 "2011-11-29T19:46:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course the latest climategate II turkey shows that the intention from the deniers is to get clips of the emails out of context and publish the hell out of them with a misleading context. This is just Standard Operating Procedure now. Taking out of context has been [taken to new heights](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/22/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obama-said-if-we-keep-talking-abo/) by presidential contenders now. I would not put it past deniers to simply cut and paste individual words to put together a sentence that looks inflammatory. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/169 "2011-11-29T20:47:37Z")
Preface: beer is fun. 🙂 Dear TOWP. Please do one of the following: -Get your own fucking thread -Do your own fucking research Thanks. 🙂 > [@FXMastermind](#): > > I noticed the same sort of thing a couple of years ago, after the first set of data and emails was released, after it was sorted out that they were real emails, not some huge joke. > > Rather than discuss the emails, the “conversations” were mostly acrimony and insults from the “alarmists”, directed at the “deniers”, with no middle ground allowed. From another topic here: > > I admit I was a bit shocked to discover that when simple scientific questions were brought up, predicated by real problems in research, rather than educate and inform, the “warmists” spewed forth invective and made everything personal. It really seemed like a religion, and one that didn’t like having it’s secret documents spread around the internet. > > Much like this topic, where the last thing being discussed is the actual pilfered documents and emails. Poe’s law dictates that I have no idea whether your post is stupidity or parody. > [@brazil84](#): > > I’m not sure what your point is here. Are you saying that yes, some researchers attempted to delete and suppress information, but under the circumstances it was justified? > > Or are you flat out denying that it happened? > > You seem to be saying both things, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. My contention is as follows: 1. No critical/important information was covered up. This has been, as said, backed up _several times_. 2. The threats of “covering up information” are not to corrupt the scientific method or cherry pick, but rather for the purpose of _actually being able to do their job_. > [@](#): > > The easiest way to handle it would be to just copy the entire computer drive and hand it over. And _then_ fill out the paperwork! And while we’re at it, let’s have their mail records, childhood photos, Social Security numbers, and ATM PINs, shall we? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > In that case, I would hand over copies of all my files to him, and advise him that if he has questions or concerns, he can take them up with the boss. I certainly would not try to hide information from him. Again, the problem is that _this shit takes time_. I liken it to the HIV debate: every hour spent needing to rebuke a fanatically retarded HIV denialists is an hour not spent solving the AIDS problem. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I think a better analogy would be a prosecutor who is constantly being pestered by defense counsel for information and case files; defense counsel is going to scrutinize the prosecutor’s and police work to try to find anything to get his client off the hook; anything to embarrass the police or prosecutor; etc. > > Even if the prosecutor KNOWS that the defendant is guilty, it still would be inappropriate for him to withhold the case file from the defendant’s attorney. He must turn it over and if he fails to do so, it’s a serious ethical transgression. He is not required to explain himself to or take instructions from the defense attorney; he just needs to turn over the file. That’s all well and good, but here’s what you’re forgetting: _We’ve been over this_. According to wikipedia, [six fucking times](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy#Inquiries_and_reports). ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/170 "2011-11-29T21:02:50Z")
I predict that nobody will discuss the topic in this topic. Of course if anybody actually starts talking about the recent release of emails, that will make my prediction wrong. In case that’s too confusing, I predict the actual content of the emails (which is in some way connected to Climategate 2.0) will not be explored, discussed or argued. Instead the entire climate clusterfuck will be once again fought over. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/171 "2011-11-29T21:05:10Z")
From the Wikipedia link: " However, the reports criticised climate scientists for their disorganised methods, bunker mentality and lack of transparency. Climate scientists and organisations pledged to restore public confidence in the research process by improving data management and opening up access to data" And that was before this recent release of even more damaging emails. Some of this new shit is seriously fucked up. Especially in context. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/172 "2011-11-29T21:11:40Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > And that was before this recent release of even more damaging emails. Some of this new shit is seriously fucked up. Especially in context. This confuses me for a few different reasons. First of all, from what I’ve gathered, the release was of _the same emails_. Secondly, all I’ve heard were trash mags like the Mail or Fox News jumping on this bandwagon of out-of-context quotes… Which quotes are damning _in_ context? Please, feel free to show us. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/173 "2011-11-29T21:15:29Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If you were this mindlessly incessant about it, then people were just being nice. > > Either you’ll get what you want or you won’t. Badgering on without end just reveals you as a dick. You’ve already said that you have what you want, and you appear to have nothing else to contribute to the discussion than this one note about falsifiability. I’m just not at all clear on what else you could want but to troll. > > I have a falsifiable prediction: **The Other Waldo Pepper** will not stop posting about this very same tired issue. It’s true that Waldo is a bit of a one-note charlie, but the fact is that it’s a very important note. The starting point of the discussion of a scientific hypothesis should be to pin down what exactly is being discussed. I personally believe that mankind’s CO2 emissions are likely to cause an increase in global surface temperatures. And yet I’m often considered a “denier” in this debate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/174 "2011-11-29T21:26:25Z")
Just like creationists come in many flavors deniers come also. In this case the South American numbered one is the one that denies that models are useful or that there is no evidence for feedbacks. This is so then he can pretend to be scientific when reporting that we do not need to worry as the warming will be minimal. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/175 "2011-11-29T22:04:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And _then_ fill out the paperwork! And while we’re at it, let’s have their mail records, childhood photos, Social Security numbers, and ATM PINs, shall we? :rolleyes: Please show me the FOIL requests made by McIntyre which are analogous to asking for childhood photos, etc. > [@](#): > > Again, the problem is that _this shit takes time_. I liken it to the HIV debate: every hour spent needing to rebuke a fanatically retarded HIV denialists is an hour not spent solving the AIDS problem. There’s no need to respond to McIntyre’s arguments. Just give him the records. It takes a few hours to copy everything and the copy program can be run overnight. And if the information is not critical or important, that’s all the more reason to just turn it over. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/176 "2011-11-29T22:19:23Z")
Where’s the _real_ birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/177 "2011-11-29T22:23:10Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I personally believe that mankind’s CO2 emissions are likely to cause an increase in global surface temperatures. And yet I’m often considered a “denier” in this debate. I’ve often taken the position that mankind’s global pollution is having even more damaging effects than what is usually discussed, including changes in the thermodynamics of the ocean/atmosphere system, but when I question some of the wilder claims made by people who seem, “alarmists”, they start equating my questioning some outrageous claims, with a denial of evolution, the holocaust, and then for good measure they insist I must believe in a flat earth. It’s insane. It’s seriously fucked up. This latest “climategate” nonsense seems to be an orchestrated attempt to influence global policy, with the unknown hacker(s) having an agenda, which seems to revolve around feeding starving people with the money, rather than lining politicians pockets with it. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/178 "2011-11-29T22:27:31Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > There’s no need to respond to McIntyre’s arguments. Just give him the records. That’s one of the more fascinating things that came out of the purloined letters. The effort to deceive, the petty (but understandable) desire to cause trouble for anyone who asks for data, and of course the huge mess that ended up being about the simple truth, that they couldn’t “turn over the records”, because they either lost them or never documented what they were doing, so it could be replicated. No matter how loudly somebody tries to shout that the emails mean nothing, that little saga that was revealed is quite revealing. And the drama! Oh the behind the scenes drama. It’s high theater. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/179 "2011-11-29T22:29:04Z")
By the way, I do not engage with **Gigobuster** due to his refusal to answer reasonable questions about his position. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243/180 "2011-11-29T22:30:07Z")
I have him on ignore, but even so, the quotes by others of his spench are enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climategate-2-0-are-you-fucking-kidding-me/604243.md?page=10)