# Climbing Everest **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371 "2008-01-13T07:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/21 "2008-01-13T14:24:19Z")
The classic example of someone claiming to have been the first to climb a major peak, but their claim being comprehensively doubted is [Cook and Mount McKinley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_A_Cook#The_1906_Mt._McKinley_Hoax). Note that Cook took photos to document his achievement and got his companion to sign affidavits, etc. The problem is that subsequent climbs to the summit failed to confirm the details of his account. Even his summit photo has [been identified as having been taken elsewhere](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_Peak). Everest has been well-trodden since without anyone raising similar doubts. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/22 "2008-01-13T14:44:46Z")
I read that the slopes of Everest are peppered with 175 corpses-none of which were buried. They pop up as the wind alternately deposits and blows away the snow cover . Isn’t this a little gross? Wh can’t the climbers get together and at least decntly bury these pool souls. This would definitely put me off climbing Mt. Everest! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/23 "2008-01-13T15:12:22Z")
I got a little absorbed in reading about Everest climbing not too long ago, so I may be able to answer your question, **ralph124c**. Most of the corpses are quite high up – far beyond the point of possible retrieval. Burial isn’t really possible; even if they covered them with snow, that’s not really a burial, and expending the sort of effort to move bodies is quite life-threatening. Generally, if it’s possible, climbers will push corpses into a crevasse or away from the main thoroughfares, but, nobody really wants to end up being a corpse in order to provide proper burials. It’s rather horrifying. One individual I read about ended up summiting (with the pictures to prove it) but he died on the way down. The following season, an individual went looking for his body. They found him dangling upside down, hanging off an ice cliff, his skin blackened from the cold exposure. They took his camera to bring back to his wife and newborn son (!) and cut the corpse down to fall into a pit. The individual who found him said he hoped he had died from the fall, and not of exposure because of lack of ability to free himself. Climbing under those conditions can be quite a nasty affair. There’s a different mindset about human life among many of the veteran climbers that fascinates and horrifies me. Even skilled climbers who have summited multiple times can end up dead. It only takes one mistake, and your judgment is already impaired from the lack of oxygen. Lose a piece of equipment or sustain a minor injury and you could be the next corpse left indefinitely on Everest. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/24 "2008-01-13T15:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] I got a little absorbed in reading about Everest climbing not too long ago, so I may be able to answer your question, **ralph124c**. Most of the corpses are quite high up – far beyond the point of possible retrieval. Burial isn’t really possible; even if they covered them with snow, that’s not really a burial, and expending the sort of effort to move bodies is quite life-threatening. Generally, if it’s possible, climbers will push corpses into a crevasse or away from the main thoroughfares, but, nobody really wants to end up being a corpse in order to provide proper burials. It’s rather horrifying. One individual I read about ended up summiting (with the pictures to prove it) but he died on the way down. The following season, an individual went looking for his body. They found him dangling upside down, hanging off an ice cliff, his skin blackened from the cold exposure. They took his camera to bring back to his wife and newborn son (!) and cut the corpse down to fall into a pit. The individual who found him said he hoped he had died from the fall, and not of exposure because of lack of ability to free himself. Climbing under those conditions can be quite a nasty affair. There’s a different mindset about human life among many of the veteran climbers that fascinates and horrifies me. Even skilled climbers who have summited multiple times can end up dead. It only takes one mistake, and your judgment is already impaired from the lack of oxygen. Lose a piece of equipment or sustain a minor injury and you could be the next corpse left indefinitely on Everest. [/QUOTE] That IS HORRIBLE! Imagine, a young wife left a widow because Dad was so ego-driven I am not superstitious, but the unburied dead are usually bad luck in many cultures-could it be that the recent spate of deaths is beacuse of all those unburied corpses. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/25 "2008-01-13T16:05:33Z")
I’m not superstitious, so I would say no anyway, but the unburied corpses is nothing new – scroll up for info on Mallory, who was found in 1999 (died on the mountain in 1924). It’s simply a matter of practicality. There’s no way to bring the bodies back and (depending on altitude) no real way to “bury” them in the sense of covering them with earth. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/26 "2008-01-13T16:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ponster] Sorry to hijack this thread slightly but could I broaden the question by asking how anyone proves that they have climbed a certain mountain? This months National mag has an article on Polish climbers in the 80’s/90’s and their solo climbs and I was thinking “Well what’s stopping them from only going half-ways but claiming that they made it to the top?” Do you have to take photos? Is the climb peer-reviewed? IS climbing an honorable sport in which no-one ‘cheats’? [/QUOTE] …Ah! It’s the old steroid debate at its finest! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/27 "2008-01-13T16:19:02Z")
Strap em on and give em a push-the corpse arrives a base camp, likedy split! ---
**Author:** ![Abraca\_Deborah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e495f1/32.png) [@Abraca\_Deborah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abraca_Deborah)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/28 "2008-01-13T16:32:23Z")
Thanks for the link to the article- what a compelling tale. It reminds me of the book “Touching the Void” by Joe Simpson ([Touching the Void - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touching_the_Void)). That story had me on the edge of my chair and sweating as I could not believe the decisions that were made and the almost insurmountable hardship that followed. It is a short read, but jam-packed with emotion. Even at a much more modest elevation, the effects of the environment on the judgement of the climbers if remarkable. The Karluk ([HMCS Karluk - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karluk_%28ship%29)) had similar disastrous results and those poor souls lived in such miserable conditions for nearly a year. Jennifer Niven wrote a book titled “The Ice Master; The Doomed 1913 Voyage of the Karluk” which was written using the diary entries of the men who were on that adventure. What seems to be a common thread is the sense of bravado and charisma that some of these people have. I cannot imagine enduring any of the conditions that many face in their quest to be first, or to complete the task under even more harrowing conditions (climbing Everest without oxygen). And as mentioned earlier up thread about the Poles who are trying to become the first to summit all 14 of the world’s tallest peaks during winter ascents. I guess it goes way beyond bravado and charisma. It is highly competitive between countries and between rival climbers. Drive and determination seem to be inadequate descriptors of what is at the heart and soul of these extreme adventurers, whether their trek is vertical or horizontal. In the face against all odds, ‘Mother Nature’ is oblivious to their attempts to reach out and touch her in places that are seemingly forbidden. There must be some unquenchable thirst that drives these people. They have such a mental toughness about them that to claim to have been to the “top” when they hadn’t been seems to be something that would completely go against their grain. These sorts of people have a mental toughness that is like armour. Often it can work to their detriment if conditions are just right; they slowly succumb to the effects of hypoxia, etc. A strange madness overcomes them and they are then swallowed up by Mother Nature. My preference is to be an ‘armchair’ adventurer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/29 "2008-01-13T16:43:30Z")
Also, have there not been incidents where climbers have simply been left to die? I remember reading (no cite) about a climber who was immobilized by exhaustion and/or cold directly on the climbing route and was doomed to die should he not receive assistance. Other climbers simply stepped over him. Their reasoning for abandoning the immobilized climber was that it took all of their resources to ensure their own survival and to assist the immobilized climber would result in their own deaths as well. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/30 "2008-01-13T17:02:22Z")
How about a coffee table book: “THE CORPSES OF EVEREST”-with living(dead ) color photos. Think it would sell? ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/31 "2008-01-13T17:21:19Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] Read _Into Thin Air_ by Jon Krakauer which has amazing tales of mountain climbing, including people claiming to have climbed mountains when virtually carried up by support personnel. The book has more detail than his original article but it is fascinating enough and it is [all here](http://outside.away.com/outside/destinations/199609/199609_into_thin_air_1.html) on the Outside site. [/QUOTE] I find the prospect of someday summiting Everest [the easy way](http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0509/whats_new/helicopter_everest.html) both inspirational and disheartening at the same time. But if I had the money, I think I would do it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/32 "2008-01-13T17:25:17Z")
Suppose you were to carry a small altimeter, with a non-tamperable upper marking system. Would this answer the critics? You could say, yeah, I made it to 29,000 feet-here’s the proof! ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/33 "2008-01-13T17:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Intelligently Designed] **Ice Wolf** , the body of George Mallory was [found](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mallory) in 1999. [/QUOTE] Mallory lives on in his famous quote. Asked why he’d climbed a certain mountain he replied, “Because it was there.” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/34 "2008-01-13T18:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] There’s no way to bring the bodies back … [/QUOTE] Given that a [helicopter has landed on the summit](http://www.everestnews.com/stories2005/everestcopter05272005.htm) I would qualify this to say that there’s no way to retrieve the bodies at a price that anyone currently wants to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/35 "2008-01-13T18:33:47Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] IIRC, the thinking _now_ is that they _did_ make it to the top, but that they succombed on the way down. [/QUOTE] Various Googling doesn’t seem to indicate any strong consensus on this. I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s impossible they made it, simply that there’s insufficient evidence to allow a reliable conclusion either way. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/36 "2008-01-13T19:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Imagine, a young wife left a widow because Dad was so ego-driven The wife tells me that [this book](http://www.amazon.com/Fragile-Edge-Maria-Coffey/dp/0099460335/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200250445&sr=8-1) tells you all about that side of the coin. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/37 "2008-01-13T20:04:29Z")
Don’t some peaks have registers at the top? I am pretty sure my cousin talked of signing the register at the top of Mt. Shasta when he climbed it. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/38 "2008-01-13T21:23:09Z")
the birds do get a nibble or two from the bodies. i followed the search for mallory expedition in '99. it was quite the tale and i have about 8 pounds of books telling the tale. hillary was very upset at the way everest has been treated from the trash, to the way climbers treat each other, to the sherpas. he couldn’t understand how a climber could just step over someone and not help them, even if it meant not summiting. personally i like my hands way, way, to much to risk losing bits of them just to stand on top of a mountain. i think about the doctor who came so close to death, he managed to live but has very severe amputations on both arms (he is one of the people in the “into thin air” book). nope, not for me. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/39 "2008-01-13T22:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shamozzle] Also, have there not been incidents where climbers have simply been left to die? [/quote] Yes - such as Beck Weathers on the expedition described in Into Thin Air. Weathers survived, though. His story can be read [in his book](http://www.amazon.com/Left-Dead-Journey-Home-Everest/dp/0440237084/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200263078&sr=8-1). It also gives an insight to the mindset of at least this one guy and why he would leave his family to pursue such a dangerous activity. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371/40 "2008-01-14T00:52:07Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] Don’t some peaks have registers at the top? I am pretty sure my cousin talked of signing the register at the top of Mt. Shasta when he climbed it. [/QUOTE] Many lower peaks do, but no 8000 meter peaks. > [@Tuckerfan](#): > > IIRC, the thinking now is that they did make it to the top, but that they succombed on the way down. I would say that isn’t true. While there are some who believe that, there are many well respected Everest climbers who don’t feel that Malory and Irvine could have scaled that route in their condition, with their skills, and with the gear they had. David Breshears, one of the most highly respected Everest mountaineers in the world, thinks they didn’t make it after he investigated the route and climbed up there. > [@ralph124c](#): > > That IS HORRIBLE! Imagine, a young wife left a widow because Dad was so ego-driven. And Moms, leaving widowers. Welcome to the world of high altitude mountaineering, and pretty much any significant mountain activities. I prefer this quote: > [@George Leigh Mallory](#): > > The first question which you will ask and which I must try to answer is this, ‘What is the use of climbing Mount Everest ?’ and my answer must at once be, ‘It is no use’. There is not the slightest prospect of any gain whatsoever. Oh, we may learn a little about the behavior of the human body at high altitudes, and possibly medical men may turn our observation to some account for the purposes of aviation. But otherwise nothing will come of it. We shall not bring back a single bit of gold or silver, not a gem, nor any coal or iron. We shall not find a single foot of earth that can be planted with crops to raise food. It’s no use. So, if you cannot understand that there is something in man which responds to the challenge of this mountain and goes out to meet it, that the struggle is the struggle of life itself upward and forever upward, then you won’t see why we go. What we get from this adventure is just sheer joy. And joy is, after all, the end of life. We do not live to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and what life is for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climbing-everest/433371.md?page=3)