# Clinton Goes To North Korea: Bill, Not Hillary - Why?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 4, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275 "2009-08-04T07:10:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/21 "2009-08-04T17:08:18Z")
Negotiating the release of a journalist isn’t as significant as say trade agreements or arms treaties. Definitely not something for Obama to do himself. I think it’s beneath Hillary as well, add to that the recent barbs thrown her way by the North Koreans, add to that Bill’s worldwide stature and it seems like Bill is a better choice than her. Not to mention, if Hillary went her pantsuit may clash with that of the Dear Leader.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/22 "2009-08-04T17:15:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Well, they denied it, but I don’t know of anyone who is in any doubt that they were lying.
There’s plenty of room for doubt. After all, they were accused by an administration that lost a truth telling contest to Saddam fucking Hussein!
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### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/23 "2009-08-04T17:43:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Here is the text of the [Agreed Framework.](http://terrorism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=terrorism&cdn=newsissues&tm=39&f=00&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.kedo.org/pdfs/AgreedFramework.pdf) I didn’t see any references limiting it to just plutonium. And [this cite](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/08/20/nkorea.timeline.nuclear/) mentions specifically that the program discovered in 2002 was in violation of the 1994 agreement. The United States, Japan, and South Korea all seem to agree that it was, since they halted the oil supplies promised to NK under the Agreed Framework. The IAEA board of governors also agrees. Well, they denied it, but I don’t know of anyone who is in any doubt that they were lying. Not by the measure of keeping NK from developing nukes. That was the idea, and it didn’t happen.
> Regards,
> Shodan
Doubts about the evidence on the uranium program [surfaced](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/washington/01korea.html?pagewanted=1)even when Bush was in office in 2007. Hillary Clinton recently stated that the US had no solid evidence about the existence of the uranium program. It would appear that there is very little hard evidence about this program’s existence let alone the conclusion that it violated the Agreed Framework. And there is no question that the main focus of the Framework was on the plutonium program which was then and now the single biggest problem with North Korea.
Frankly given what we know about the Bush administration and its WMD assessments in Iraq I think it’s more than likely they were doing something similar in North Korea: distorting and exaggerating the available evidence to destroy the Agreed Framework and any serious negotiations.
As for Clinton’s success: did North Korea have a nuclear weapon when he left office? No. Is there a shred of evidence that the alleged uranium program had produced enough fissile material for a single bomb? No. There was a serious threat that North Korea would go nuclear in the mid-90’s and Clinton successfully prevented this. It was Bush who destroyed the Agreed Framework and allowed North Korea to go nuclear.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/24 "2009-08-04T18:30:57Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> Yeah, it’s not that uncommon as I understand it. Though they say Jimmy Carter likes to go around of his own volition. 😉
That’s what I was going to say - Carter has been doing this sort of thing for decades, so it’s not as though Clinton is doing anything particularly unusual.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/25 "2009-08-04T18:43:55Z")
> [@Lantern](#):
>
> It was Bush who destroyed the Agreed Framework and allowed North Korea to go nuclear.
Don’t neglect the role of the Republican controlled congress in [not properly funding the light water reactor](http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/161st_issue/2001052201.htm) we agreed to as part of the 94 nuclear framework. Had they not insisted that ideology trumps diplomacy we might not have had to watch the framework break down, and N Korea become a nuclear power.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/26 "2009-08-04T19:11:03Z")
Its a good move. It strokes the ego of Kim Deathly Ill, boosts his standing with his long-suffering people. Horndog Bill has no actual official standing, so no committments are suggested. Obama is remaining strictly silent on the matter, which is right also: we’re not offering carrot or stick, just feeling him out. Smart. About time we started grooming somebody for Jimmy’s job, he’s getting a mite long in the tooth.
Only one thing worries me, and maybe its silly. What if Kim decides to keep him, trump up some charges, shit like that. Then the trajectory of the shit could really intersect the locus of the fan. But Horndog Billy knew that, and did it anyway. Good for him.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/27 "2009-08-04T19:16:43Z")
The North Korean government pardoned Ling and Lee.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/28 "2009-08-04T19:20:39Z")
CNN is reporting that [N. Korea is releasing the journalists](http://www.cnn.com/).
In addition to the above examples, don’t forget that Clinton and George Bush the Elder teamed up for a foreign tour for tsunami releif.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/29 "2009-08-04T20:37:32Z")
> [@Lantern](#):
>
> Anyway coming back to OP, I would imagine Hillary has a lot on her plate and from the larger foreign policy perspective this is not a big matter. Bill is ideal in that he has a high international profile but isn’t particularly busy. Now that Carter is getting old I suppose he will be the go-to former President for these kinds of matters. I can’t imagine even a future Republican president wanting to send George W.
Not to N. Korea, no. Never. No goodwill there. Maybe to some African country, someday.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/30 "2009-08-04T20:46:28Z")
When they unveil that statue of him in downtown Baghdad, he’ll pretty much have to go, won’t he?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/31 "2009-08-04T20:59:30Z")
John Bolton does not like this. No sir, not one bit:
> [@](#):
>
> The Obama administration is rewarding North Korea for its bad behavior by sending ex-president Bill Clinton to Pyongyang to win the release of two US journalists, the former US ambassador to the UN said Tuesday.
>
> John Bolton, an outspoken hardliner in the previous administration of George W. Bush, told AFP that Clinton’s mission to Pyongyang undermines a number of public stands held by his own wife, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
>
> “It comes perilously close to negotiating with terrorists,” Bolton told AFP when asked about Bill Clinton’s trip to secure the release of journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee.
[Bolton Still Sticking With Failed Policies of America’s Worst President](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHj0rARiWVv4Jwy1z9FP9AHkYYvw)
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### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/32 "2009-08-04T21:02:36Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> CNN is reporting that [N. Korea is releasing the journalists](http://www.cnn.com/).
Can we assume that friend \*\*Shodan \*\*will be eating some crow at this point?
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### Author:  [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/33 "2009-08-04T21:10:18Z")
Were they awed by his big American penis, or did he have help from his good buddy Benjamin Franklin?
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/34 "2009-08-04T21:38:21Z")
i figured it would be clinton or gore. both are high woo woo factor. this lets korea keep face and the obama government out of the equation.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/35 "2009-08-04T23:21:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> The North Koreans got Clinton to fall for their BS [once](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/10/clintons_new_glow_job.html) - maybe they are hoping Slick Willie will be what Mr. Peanut was in 1994.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
You’re presenting an Ann Coulter column as a factual cite? LMFAO. There aren’t enough smileys in the interwebz for that one.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/36 "2009-08-05T00:11:28Z")
You are simply unwilling to accept an alternative esthetic on the nature of a “cite”.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/37 "2009-08-05T02:10:52Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#):
>
> Were they awed by his big American penis, or did he have help from his good buddy Benjamin Franklin?
The way that boy can talk I wouldn’t be surprised if Kim gave HIM money. Say what you will about Bubba, but he could sing the birds out of the trees. Fercryinoutloud, Newt Gingrich had a mancrush on him.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/38 "2009-08-05T03:23:36Z")
Loved the Fark headline, which explained everything;
“Bill Clinton picks up two asian chicks”.
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### Author:  [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/39 "2009-08-05T03:33:01Z")
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Re: Success in NK
« Reply #3 Today at 1:01 »
> [@](#):
>
> I’m hoping Bill Clinton got a one way ticket to North Korea. Unlikely but hoping.
>
> Also hoping he won’t hit on any young Korean girls while over there. Likely but hoping.
Stupid \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*. It’s Obama behaving like a grown-up instead of a kid making a big noise to put the other side’s back up and likely get the idiots they want to rescue killed as well as a bunch of invaders starting a war. Really believe Obama didn’t know about this? It’s the way normal diplomacy works - low key, everybody free to back out and pretend it never happened - except that if they do they know the other side knows. Force somebody into a corner and there’s no choice except to come out fighting. Put the ball in their court to look a turd if they act up and they want to show you’ve under-rated them.
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### Author:  [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-goes-to-north-korea-bill-not-hillary-why/505275/40 "2009-08-05T17:19:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> The way that boy can talk I wouldn’t be surprised if Kim gave HIM money. Say what you will about Bubba, but he could sing the birds out of the trees. Fercryinoutloud, Newt Gingrich had a mancrush on him.
“Have you met the man in person? He has this amazing charisma… **I’d** fuck him!” - Bill Maher
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