# Clinton/Obama Ticket **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199 "2008-03-05T16:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/61 "2008-03-06T14:46:04Z")
I’m still trying to get my head around the _tactic_ of floating it now. She sees the math as well as the rest of us. She can only get the nom with _overwhelming_ super delegate support and if he keeps Pennsylvania close and wins where he is expected to then by overwhelmingly overwhelming super delegate support. What could convince them to do that? Well an extremely solid performance in Pennsylvania is enough to make the case that she can deliver the big states. In short it cuts the legs out from under those of us who see Obama able to inspire and deliver across the spectrum if he can’t mobilize enough to keep it at least neck and neck in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. And that point would be before his next likely big wins so would be as close as she could get. Would possibly get her neck and neck in the popular vote at that point in time. A time when the powers that be will be getting increasingly desirous of avoiding a brokered convention that begins to loom. Maybe she hopes that she is offering up a way to nominate her and not fracture the party irreparably to be considered at that point (if she gets there), else she takes it to the convention floor even if it brings the party down with her? And hoping that Obama would blink. Alternatively she opens up a the back-up plan. If she wins Pennsylvania but narrowly then that would be a harder sell and she knows it but the threat of the brokered convention remains. Then she can offer herself for VP as the cost of backing down. 8 more years and then its hers, all hers! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/62 "2008-03-06T17:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=cricetus] What do Obama backers think? [/QUOTE] I think Hillary would be a drag on the ticket as VP candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/63 "2008-03-06T18:15:28Z")
I will not vote for Hillary as POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/64 "2008-03-06T18:20:56Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] I’m still trying to get my head around the _tactic_ of floating it now. [/QUOTE] It’s a somewhat sneaky way of reaching out to undecided Democrats. She’s trying to tell them that if they vote for her, they get two for the price of one - the best of both worlds, allegedly. And by pretending to take the high road and offering a way to end the primary conflict, perhaps she thinks she looks more presidential. Obama can’t come out and say “Kiss my ass, I wouldn’t join that ticket,” so it’s kind of a freebie for her. In a sense I guess you could say she is trying to regain that “inevitability” thing by talking about potential VP choices. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/65 "2008-03-06T20:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] I’m still trying to get my head around the _tactic_ of floating it now. [/QUOTE] I think she is trying to muscle her way onto Obama’s ticket as VP. Of course she has to couch the “dream ticket” as being with her on top, but I believe she is enough of a realist to know she is not going to get the nomination. She is sounding out a deal that would make her the VP nominee. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/66 "2008-03-07T01:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=Desert Nomad] Her 35 years of experience counts every moment from the time she left Yale. Obama has held more elected positions and more time in office overall. Her time being first lady should not count for much. My dad flew 747s… and I spent 20 years living in the same house… guess I am a qualified 747 pilot now. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Her experience at 1st Lady doesn’t count for much, but nor does Obama’s experience as a local pol. But HRC has been in the Senate exactly twice as long as Obama has, thus has twice the National experience. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/67 "2008-03-07T21:40:47Z")
[QUOTE=Desert Nomad] Obama as VP is pointless because Bill will be defacto VP. [/QUOTE] My feelings exactly. I think Obama is too savvy to be suckered into being a third wheel for the Clintons. I’d rather see him continue on in the Senate then have his hands tied for 4 years as VP. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/68 "2008-03-10T02:53:41Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] I’m still trying to get my head around the _tactic_ of floating it now. She sees the math as well as the rest of us. She can only get the nom with _overwhelming_ super delegate support and if he keeps Pennsylvania close and wins where he is expected to then by overwhelmingly overwhelming super delegate support. What could convince them to do that? Well an extremely solid performance in Pennsylvania is enough to make the case that she can deliver the big states. In short it cuts the legs out from under those of us who see Obama able to inspire and deliver across the spectrum if he can’t mobilize enough to keep it at least neck and neck in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. And that point would be before his next likely big wins so would be as close as she could get. Would possibly get her neck and neck in the popular vote at that point in time. A time when the powers that be will be getting increasingly desirous of avoiding a brokered convention that begins to loom. Maybe she hopes that she is offering up a way to nominate her and not fracture the party irreparably to be considered at that point (if she gets there), else she takes it to the convention floor even if it brings the party down with her? And hoping that Obama would blink. Alternatively she opens up a the back-up plan. If she wins Pennsylvania but narrowly then that would be a harder sell and she knows it but the threat of the brokered convention remains. Then she can offer herself for VP as the cost of backing down. 8 more years and then its hers, all hers! [/QUOTE] If you guys have been keeping check on what Bill and Hillary have been saying, I’m willing to bet that she’s angling to become VP at this point. They’re both smart enough to realize that Obama is still quite enchanting, and that she has a less than even chance of winning the nomination in a way that will be good for the party. Both Bill and Hillary are good party liners, so I feel like this is a natural and good strategic choice. Hillary was freaking made for the VP spot. She’s at least as scary as Cheney, in a democrat way. Obama’s language regarding the Billary comments haven’t been entire dismissive either. He specifically says that it’s not being considered right now because he’s campaigning to be _president_ and not VP. If Hillary’s willing to take VP, who can say? ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/69 "2008-03-10T03:21:39Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] If Hillary’s willing to take VP, who can say? [/QUOTE] I’m not so sure I buy that. I hate to fall back on a pretty fluffy criticism of Hillary, but I really do get the impression that she’s got too much pride to take that VP spot. If she had kept the attitude she displayed at the end of the Ohio debate I might agree with this, but she’s played way too hard since then. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/70 "2008-03-10T04:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=rikc] I’m not so sure I buy that. I hate to fall back on a pretty fluffy criticism of Hillary, but I really do get the impression that she’s got too much pride to take that VP spot. If she had kept the attitude she displayed at the end of the Ohio debate I might agree with this, but she’s played way too hard since then. [/QUOTE] People talk a lot about Hillary’s pride, and I sometimes feel like they cast it in a ridiculously negative light. Confidence in a women seems to strike a lot of people as oddball. Note, I’m not saying this about you, just some people in general who have also talked about her pride. Personally, I think that a woman who can play second fiddle to Bill Clinton (a no-name from Hope, Arkansas) has a great deal of patience. Not only patience, but also the will power to execute both long and short-term strategic political moves. I think taking the VP spot would be a brilliant political move for the Clintons. The VP is a powerful player. Sure, you might not drop hundreds of millions of dollars just to get VP, but if you were in the campaign and you saw that Obama stood a better than even chance at winning, wouldn’t you be willing to maximize your profits and minimize your losses? It seems like a step up to me. New York senator to VP (aka President of the Senate). ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/71 "2008-03-10T07:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] People talk a lot about Hillary’s pride, and I sometimes feel like they cast it in a ridiculously negative light. Confidence in a women seems to strike a lot of people as oddball. Note, I’m not saying this about you, just some people in general who have also talked about her pride. Personally, I think that a woman who can play second fiddle to Bill Clinton (a no-name from Hope, Arkansas) has a great deal of patience. Not only patience, but also the will power to execute both long and short-term strategic political moves. I think taking the VP spot would be a brilliant political move for the Clintons. [/QUOTE] I always though Hillary would have left Bill over Monicagate except for her political ambitions. If Hillary is thought of in a negative light, its mostly her own fault. This VP thing seems so insincere I can hardly believe it came out of her campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/72 "2008-03-10T21:08:45Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] True, she only has \*twice \*as much National experience than Obama. :rolleyes: [/quote] Obama has twice as much experience in elected office. > [@](#): > > My suggestion is Clinton/Obama, then Obama/Clinton, rinse, repeat. And, they have to agree in public to this. Would you be just as happy with Obama/Clinton, then Clinton/Obama then rinse and repeat? > [@](#): > > \*\* > DSYoungEsq\*\* is right. The Dems have to get behind _either._ Otherwise, EIGHT MORE YEARS of the WAR. The economy can’t take it, America will be bankrupt. We simply can’t afford to let McCain in. So shouldn’t Hillary stop her divisive tactics? ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/73 "2008-03-10T21:11:37Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] I think Hillary would be a drag on the ticket as VP candidate. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t want to be the heartbeat separating Hillary from the Oval office. ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/74 "2008-03-10T21:21:28Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Her experience at 1st Lady doesn’t count for much, but nor does Obama’s experience as a local pol. But HRC has been in the Senate exactly twice as long as Obama has, thus has twice the National experience. [/QUOTE] Don’t mistake the following comparison as a direct comparison between Obama and Lincoln but… Lincoln served 2 years in the US congress and 10 years in the Illinois congress before becoming POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/75 "2008-03-10T21:24:16Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] People talk a lot about Hillary’s pride, and I sometimes feel like they cast it in a ridiculously negative light. Confidence in a women seems to strike a lot of people as oddball. Note, I’m not saying this about you, just some people in general who have also talked about her pride. Personally, I think that a woman who can play second fiddle to Bill Clinton (a no-name from Hope, Arkansas) has a great deal of patience. Not only patience, but also the will power to execute both long and short-term strategic political moves. I think taking the VP spot would be a brilliant political move for the Clintons. The VP is a powerful player. Sure, you might not drop hundreds of millions of dollars just to get VP, but if you were in the campaign and you saw that Obama stood a better than even chance at winning, wouldn’t you be willing to maximize your profits and minimize your losses? It seems like a step up to me. New York senator to VP (aka President of the Senate). [/QUOTE] President of the Senate basically means you can cast tie breaking votes and you are first in line of succession to the oval office. Hillary would be more powerful as a senator unless she saw the VP slot as a stepping stone to POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/76 "2008-03-10T21:32:21Z")
This ridiculousness cannot go away soon enough for me. A combined ticket will never, _ever_ happen. And Barack Obama made that [pretty damn clear today](http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obamas-remarks/) while campaigning in Mississippi. > [@](#): > > . . .President Bill Clinton back in 1992 when he was being asked about his selection for Vice President. . . He said the only criteria, the most important criteria for Vice President is that that person is ready if I fell out in the first week that he or she would be ready to be the Commander in Chief. > > . . . > > So look I just want everybody to be absolutely clear here, okay. I want everyone to be absolutely clear. We are in a tough battle and I don’t presume that I have won this election. Senator Clinton is fighting hard. She is tenacious. I respect her for that. She is working hard to win the nomination. But I want everybody to be absolutely clear. > > I am not running for Vice President. I am running for President of the United States of America. I am running for President of the United States of America. I am running to be Commander in Chief. And the reason I am running to be Commander in Chief is because I believe that the most important thing when you answer that phone call at three in the morning is what kind of judgment do you have, not how long you have been in Washington, but what kind of judgment do you have when you are answering that phone. > > And I believe that I have shown better judgment than Senator Clinton. I believe I offer a clean break from the policies of George Bush. Because Senator Clinton went along with George Bush on the war in Iraq. Senator Clinton went along with George Bush on her willingness to try to saber rattle when it came to Iran. She has gone along with many of the conventional ways of thinking about foreign policy that have gotten us into trouble. That is what I intend to change when I am President of the United States. > > So I don’t want anybody here thinking that I that somehow well you know maybe I can get both. Don’t think that way. You have to make a choice in this election. > > Are you gonna go along with the past or are you gonna go towards the future? > > Are you gonna do the same old thing or are you gonna try something new? > > I am not running for Vice President. I do not believe Senator Clinton is about change because in fact this kind of gamesmanship, talking about me as Vice President, but he maybe he’s not ready for Commander in Chief. That is exactly the kind of double speak, double talk that Washington is very good at. That people who spend a lot of time in Washington have a lot of experience at, but is not gonna solve the problems of the country. Barack Obama will never offer Hillary Clinton the VP spot on his ticket. Even he agrees with President Clinton, the Vice President has to be ready to lead from Day Two, if Og forbid the President dies on inauguration day. Barack Obama does not believe Hillary Clinton is the right person to lead from Day One, why on earth would he intentionally put her in a position to lead from Day Two? He is not trying to separate himself from the politics of the past, only to drag it along with him on his ticket into the general election. And since I’m not Obama, I don’t have to be as polite about giving Hillary any benefit that she may pull a win out of this election. She won’t. The numbers are impossible to overcome under any circumstances, and that includes praying the supers come out in force for her in the end. It’s a pipe dream for her and her supporters, so there is no need to discuss why Hillary Clinton would likewise never actually put Obama on her ticket, let alone why he would never accept. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/77 "2008-03-10T22:01:01Z")
Another data point, for those counting. I’ve voted Democrat in every election since 1992 (sat out 84 and 88), but I’m not voting for Hillary. I think Mc Cain is a more decent human being than Hillary, and that we would, in fact, be more warlike under Clinton. Hillary, through her campaign tactics, has obviously pissed off the active and engaged side of the party–just another not-too-bright thing she’s done lately. The best thing for the party is for Clinton to go back to NY, today. Is she really gonna say to all of the high-energy Obama supporters, “No, you can’t.”? That can’t be good for the party. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/78 "2008-03-11T04:04:30Z")
I can’t understand Clinton’s offer to “let” Obama run as her Vice President. It was, at best, incredibly poor timing. By any objective standard, Obama is currently ahead of her in the nomination race. She can’t possibly believe he would voluntarily relinquish the lead to serve behind her. So she came out of this looking desperate, which is not an image she needs at this point. Her offer to make him VP is an endorsement of his abilities. And coming after her recent campaign of questioning Obama’s readiness it makes her look hypocritical. What did she think she was going to gain out of this offer? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/79 "2008-03-11T07:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I can’t understand Clinton’s offer to “let” Obama run as her Vice President. It was, at best, incredibly poor timing. By any objective standard, Obama is currently ahead of her in the nomination race. She can’t possibly believe he would voluntarily relinquish the lead to serve behind her. So she came out of this looking desperate, which is not an image she needs at this point. Her offer to make him VP is an endorsement of his abilities. And coming after her recent campaign of questioning Obama’s readiness it makes her look hypocritical. What did she think she was going to gain out of this offer? [/QUOTE] What makes it kind of funny in a sad kind of way is that you’d think someone in her position would be able to see what a bonehead play the VP slot was. But she didn’t and foresight hasn’t been a strong suit in her entire campaign.\* Yet she’s going to be ready on day 1?\* ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199/80 "2008-03-11T13:22:10Z")
If you throw out a million mini-controversies to the press, then you create an atmosphere of uncertainty and politics-as-usual surrounding both candidates. Since Clinton has been around longer, she comes out ahead in the eye of the undecided voter. I firmly believe that this is the goal of the kitchen-sink strategy- to convert enough undecideds in PA and nationwide back to a pre-Iowa way of thinking, so that an argument can be made to the superdelegates that the popular vote total is close or in her favor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-obama-ticket/440199.md?page=5)