# Clinton Slips Leash; Jennings Critical
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [November 20, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807 "2004-11-20T06:32:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/241 "2004-11-27T22:32:12Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> But not on this one. American citizens deserve to have the rights that God or nature gave them secured by their government, no matter where they go.
That sounds suspiciously like extraterritoriality.
By what mechanism do you propose that we secure these rights even while Americans are in other places?
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/242 "2004-11-27T22:39:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I agree with you on this one.
> But not on this one. American citizens deserve to have the rights that God or nature gave them secured by their government, no matter where they go.
I completely disagree with that. The US has no right to enforce any protections outside its own jurisdiction. US citizens know when they leave that they aren’t in Kansas anymore.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/243 "2004-11-27T23:04:42Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> That sounds suspiciously like extraterritoriality.
> By what mechanism do you propose that we secure these rights even while Americans are in other places?
By the mechanism of force.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/244 "2004-11-27T23:07:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> By the mechanism of force.
Wow.
Um, guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that 'un.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/245 "2004-11-27T23:07:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> I completely disagree with that. The US has no right to enforce any protections outside its own jurisdiction. US citizens know when they leave that they aren’t in Kansas anymore.
I thought you didn’t believe in the supernatural, and yet you assign to reified borders a mystical significance. We simply view government fundamentally differently — you seem to view it protecting borders, and I view it protecting people.
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/246 "2004-11-28T00:00:32Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Play straight now. I’ve done you that courtesy, you could do the same.[credibility](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=credibility) As in , the next time we cry WMD, er, wolf, nobody will believe us. Ditto if we ever want to ‘administrate’ a ‘regime change’ and ‘win the peace.’
> And, by the way, our warlike tendencies, or the fact that we’ll “fuck you harder.”, is kinda what led [our closet ally to be unsure if Bush or Sadaam was a greater threat to global peace](http://www.quivis.com/iraq21.html)
>
> [this is not a totally isolated incident](http://www.twf.org/News/Y2002/1109-Poll.html)
>
> [don’t look](http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav050503a.shtml) [very hard](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3541562/). Eh?
>
> [In](http://www.overpopulation.org/impact.html) [what](http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1025-22.htm)[Universe](http://usembassy.state.gov/seoul/wwwh6044.html)[exactly](http://www.psr.org/home.cfm?id=Vote_Healthy_in_2004) [?](http://www.seachangecenter.org/learnmore/)
>
> [They will make a desert and call it progress](http://www.overpopulation.org/impact.html#deforestDesertify)
>
> You can’t disregard reality by calling it a joke.
> Do you honestly need me to give you cites on how the FCC has been fining people left and right?
>
> [Sure](http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/26/news/economy/poverty_survey/?cnn=yes)[thing](http://www.epinet.org/static/books_swa2004_main.cfm) [no](http://www.epinet.org/briefingpapers/146/epi_bp146.pdf) [problem.](http://www.jobwatch.org/national.html)
> [A total of 47% of Americans rate the national economy as very good or good and 52% rate it as bad, very bad, or terrible.](http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/)
I don’t have any beef with you, **FinnAgain** , but you are citing The Wisdom Fund, Physicians for Social Responsibility, [commondreams.org](http://commondreams.org), and [overpopulation.org](http://overpopulation.org). Just a wee bit of bias can be found there, don’t you think? In a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, I don’t see the utility in that approach. YM probably does V.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/247 "2004-11-28T00:20:58Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> I don’t have any beef with you, **FinnAgain** , but you are citing The Wisdom Fund, Physicians for Social Responsibility, [commondreams.org](http://commondreams.org), and [overpopulation.org](http://overpopulation.org). Just a wee bit of bias can be found there, don’t you think? In a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, I don’t see the utility in that approach. YM probably does V.
Do you have a problem with the numbers and facts presented, or the location in cyberspace where you found them?
In other words, will you debate the information or try to dodge it by attacking the cite?
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/248 "2004-11-28T00:22:03Z")
And while I’m at it, how about you admit that you were wrong about the Tabliban?
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/249 "2004-11-28T00:23:07Z")
D’oh!
Taliban, grrrr.
I’m off for dinner, I await a response.
And I’d like one dealing with the facts presented on all the points your raised, thank you.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/250 "2004-11-28T00:49:06Z")
He can’t refute the data. So he refutes the cites.
Typical milwhatever.
Told ya.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/251 "2004-11-28T00:57:44Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> He can’t refute the data. So he refutes the cites.
> Typical milwhatever.
> Told ya.
You did indeed.
I’m still hoping that he realizes he’s commited a fallacy in reasoning and will discuss the figures given.
Even if he does not, many of my cites were not from any on his ‘verboten’ list, especially those proving that his claim about the Taliban is spurious.
I await confirmation/debate.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/252 "2004-11-28T01:18:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> You did indeed.
> I’m still hoping that he realizes he’s commited a fallacy in reasoning and will discuss the figures given.
> Even if he does not, many of my cites were not from any on his ‘verboten’ list, especially those proving that his claim about the Taliban is spurious.
> I await confirmation/debate.
Hunker down.
It’s gonna be a long wait.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/253 "2004-11-28T01:20:13Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Hunker down.
> It’s gonna be a long wait.
So you refuse to debate facts and figures if they happen to be found on a certian website?
And you will ignore all the other facts and figures that were found on ‘acceptable’ websites because there were other ‘unnaceptable’ websites in my post?
Just checking.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/254 "2004-11-28T01:22:12Z")
Shit!
I misread who was posting, my apologies.
Damn…
I still await a response.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/255 "2004-11-28T01:25:52Z")
Gods, that really will teach me to have multiple windows open on my browser… some strange case of cognitive, um, slush.
Honestly though **mil** , even if we toss out all the cites you find objectionable, I still have others in that post, can we at least discuss those?
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/256 "2004-11-28T02:10:13Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Honestly though **mil** , even if we toss out all the cites you find objectionable, I still have others in that post, can we at least discuss those?
We can, and we will, but I am off to dinner myself. See ya later this evening, or possibly tomorrow. Hope you are enjoying the holiday weekend.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/257 "2004-11-28T02:15:21Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> We can, and we will, but I am off to dinner myself. See ya later this evening, or possibly tomorrow. Hope you are enjoying the holiday weekend.
Have a good dinner, I, on the other hand, am busily working on two seperate papers dealing with critical literacy and trying to smack them into APA format.
Are you interested in the pedagogical implications of semantically driven linguistic practices? Did not think so.
A good weekend to you as well.
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/258 "2004-11-28T04:42:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Have a good dinner, I, on the other hand, am busily working on two seperate papers dealing with critical literacy and trying to smack them into APA format.
>
> Are you interested in the pedagogical implications of semantically driven linguistic practices? Did not think so.
>
> A good weekend to you as well.
Ok, I’m back, dinner was good, thanks for asking. Your CNN cite about the increase in poverty does NOT support your claim that “the economic status of **most** Americans is worse than it was four years ago”.
P.S. I am most definitely not interested in the “pedagogical implications of semantically driven linguistic practices” because that could only mean something to Alice in Wonderland, for heaven’s sake. And either you or your parents are paying for this sort of “education”? Good luck with that. Really. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/259 "2004-11-28T04:53:54Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> Ok, I’m back, dinner was good, thanks for asking. Your CNN cite about the increase in poverty does NOT support your claim that “the economic status of **most** Americans is worse than it was four years ago”.
I can furnish you with cites about the mean household debt if you would prefer, and there were other issues than economics in the debate that you and I were (I think) having.
I would appreciate it if you’d respond to the other points, such as, your claim that we don’t see many taliban anymore.
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> P.S. I am most definitely not interested in the “pedagogical implications of semantically driven linguistic practices” because that could only mean something to Alice in Wonderland
Quite false.
Words are multivalued, text must often be analyzed to get at the truth value, and to a certain degree the structure of language influences thought.
If necessary I can furnish you with a heap of articles on critical literacy, semantics, linguistcs, and cognitive science/psychology.
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> for heaven’s sake. And either you or your parents are paying for this sort of “education”? Good luck with that. Really. :rolleyes:
Not only that, but I may very well be teaching your children one of these days.
So I’ll respond to your eye rolling with a Mwahahahaha!
---
### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/260 "2004-11-28T05:01:35Z")
So in other words, you’re a college student talking out of your ass, just as I thought.
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