# Clinton Slips Leash; Jennings Critical
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [November 20, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807 "2004-11-20T06:32:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/161 "2004-11-24T16:52:23Z")
It was pretty dumb for Clinton to lie under oath.
But considering _what_ he was lying about, the fuss that was made seems rather insane.
Anybody with a husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend, if asked in front of the entire nation about their affairs, would most likely deny it. That sort of shit is private and not for public consumption.
Yes, it was a mistake and a political miscalculation on Clinton’s part to lie about a blowjob. But, honestly, wouldn’t you?
And in the final anaylsis, isn’t it trivial to lie under oath about a blowjob, especially when compared to misleading, not under oath, about connections to Al Queda and WMD? (just curious)
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/162 "2004-11-24T17:20:50Z")
> [@TYM](#):
>
> …that a blowjob is certainly nothing to get bent out of shape about (unless one is Clinton’s wife)…
Stay with me as long as you can here.
What if you believed that your boss had violated your civil rights by making sexual advances toward you, and then punishing you when they were unrequited. Suppose you took the matter to court, and the judge declared that you have a right to know whether your boss had made sexual advances toward anyone else in his employ in order to determine whether he had a pattern of violating civil rights. Suppose he then lied to cover his own ass, and used his considerable power and influence to the point that you had no practical choice but to settle the case quietly for a pittance, and without his admitting any guilt.
In other words, he got away with abusing you.
You know he lied. He later admits he lied. But half the country says you got “bent out of shape” over nothing, and makes you the villain. In all honesty, I’m afraid that before you ever call me a loon again, you will need to show that you are not a loon yourself by admitting that you would be mightily pissed at your boss and all the people who trivialized what happened to you by defending him.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/163 "2004-11-24T17:25:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Anybody with a husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend, if asked in front of the entire nation about their affairs, would most likely deny it. That sort of shit is private and not for public consumption.
Except that someone else’s life and family were hanging in the balance. Covering his own ass to save himself some grief, rather than mitigating the pain that he caused someone else, was about as low as cowardice could go.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/164 "2004-11-24T17:31:35Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Except that someone else’s life and family were hanging in the balance. Covering his own ass to save himself some grief, rather than mitigating the pain that he caused someone else, was about as low as cowardice could go.
How was someone else’s life and family hanging in the balance? In other words, would you please furnish me with a cite?
And, covering your own ass when you’ve injured someone else is what the fifth ammendment is made for. Cowardly or not, our founding fathers evidently thought such ‘cowardly’ behavior was important enough to enshrine in one of our most venerated documents.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/165 "2004-11-24T17:34:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Already explained. Because of your utter refusal, or is it inability, to consider the context. You cannot understand how Clinton answered the question without understanding who was asking it and why it was being asked. Is that really so difficult?
Your point is not difficult to understand. I understand the context. I understand that the Republicans were out to get him. I understand that the impeachment was politically motivated. I also understand that Clinton lied under oath and was impeached for it. I understand that saying Clinton was impeached because he got a blowjob is factually incorrect. I also understand, now, that you’re completely unable to grasp the simplest points and have no real interest in actually debating the point, an understanding, by the by, that I should have remembered from 3 years ago. Why I wasted my time with you further in this thread is the only thing I don’t understand.
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### Author:  [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/166 "2004-11-24T17:35:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Stay with me as long as you can here.
>
> What if you believed that your boss had violated your civil rights by making sexual advances toward you,
Right, I’m sure she was an unwilling participant. Hell, as far as I know, she was starry-eyed and more than willing.
> [@](#):
>
> Except that someone else’s life and family were hanging in the balance. Covering his own ass to save himself some grief, rather than mitigating the pain that he caused someone else, was about as low as cowardice could go.
So what you’re saying is that rather than being handled privately, which by all accounts it was, it should have been aired for the world to see? You’re saying that making it all so public was cathartic on some odd way? Do you honestly think that the family is better off now, having had Bill’s sexual fuckups come to light in the most brutal and ruthless way that this “family hanging in the balance”, was saved?
Oh please. Surely even you cannot for a minute swallow your own justification for the tarring of Bill Clinton.
If I cheat on my wife, is it better to send out a press release, or start a thread here, or announce it to my friends and family at a dinner party? Or would it be better to mitigate the damage and get a jump on counseling all involved and trying to settle the mistake made?
Sam
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/167 "2004-11-24T17:42:48Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> How was someone else’s life and family hanging in the balance? In other words, would you please furnish me with a cite?
[http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/clinton/wrightsorder13.html](http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/clinton/wrightsorder13.html)
> [@](#):
>
> And, covering your own ass when you’ve injured someone else is what the fifth ammendment is made for. Cowardly or not, our founding fathers evidently thought such ‘cowardly’ behavior was important enough to enshrine in one of our most venerated documents.
He didn’t plead the fifth. He lied.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/168 "2004-11-24T17:47:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Stay with me as long as you can here.
>
> What if you believed that your boss had violated your civil rights by making sexual advances toward you, and then punishing you when they were unrequited. Suppose you took the matter to court, and the judge declared that you have a right to know whether your boss had made sexual advances toward anyone else in his employ in order to determine whether he had a pattern of violating civil rights. Suppose he then lied to cover his own ass, and used his considerable power and influence to the point that you had no practical choice but to settle the case quietly for a pittance, and without his admitting any guilt.
>
> In other words, he got away with abusing you.
>
> You know he lied. He later admits he lied. But half the country says you got “bent out of shape” over nothing, and makes you the villain. In all honesty, I’m afraid that before you ever call me a loon again, you will need to show that you are not a loon yourself by admitting that you would be mightily pissed at your boss and all the people who trivialized what happened to you by defending him.
Oh for pete’s sake, **Liberal** , feel free to join the real world at any time. She was never punished for whatever happened. There is, in fact, some doubt as to whether she was as unwilling a participant as she claimed. You may note that the judge dismissed the case even after the blowjob was out in the open.
Her case was financed by the Rutherford Institute, very much an anti-Clinton organization (and which eventually received a piece of her settlement), after her first lawyers abandoned her because she refused a settlement. I would suspect that her lawyers were very much aware of the merits of her case, and knew that a court case would go nowhere.
I have no reason to believe that Paula Jones is any more truthful than any of the other players in this sordid affair.
And I may, of course, call you a loon whenever my little heart desires, regardless of your pathetic attempt to impose hurdles for me to jump first.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/169 "2004-11-24T17:49:09Z")
> [@GaWd](#):
>
> Right, I’m sure she was an unwilling participant. Hell, as far as I know, she was starry-eyed and more than willing.
Oh, sure, I understand what you mean. I mean, maybe she wore pretty dresses and make-up like any gold-digging slut would do. Who knows, maybe Lacy Peterson asked for it by being too bitchy. But isn’t that what courts are for? To try to get at the truth?
> [@](#):
>
> So what you’re saying is that rather than being handled privately, which by all accounts it was…
Gotta cut you off there. It was a public civil trial.
> [@](#):
>
> Oh please. Surely even you cannot for a minute swallow your own justification for the tarring of Bill Clinton.
Tarring? 😃 It’s no more tarring Bill Clinton to say that he got away with sexual harassment and abuse of power than it is to say that OJ Simpson got away with murder. At least OJ was acquitted.
> [@](#):
>
> If I cheat on my wife, is it better to send out a press release, or start a thread here, or announce it to my friends and family at a dinner party? Or would it be better to mitigate the damage and get a jump on counseling all involved and trying to settle the mistake made?
>
> Sam
[…shrug…] If you don’t want to be sued for sexual harassment, cited for contempt, and disbarred it’s best you just play it straight.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/170 "2004-11-24T17:54:30Z")
> [@Roseworm](#):
>
> Inasmuch as Bill’s fans like to tout the (debatable) “peace and prosperity” of the Clinton presidency, they are overlooking a harsh fact: The Clinton era was, and continues to be, an _unmitigated disaster for the Democratic Party_.
>
> In 1992, the Dems had it all - White House, Senate, House of Reps. After the Meltdown of 1994, Clinton pretty much abandoned his party and Congressional Democrats in order to save his own skin. Following Dick Morris’s (excellent) advice, he triangulated like crazy and co-opted big chunks of the Republican agenda.
>
> So, basically, Bill got himself elected and re-elected. But he never had any coattails. For the last ten years, the Dems have been losing House seats, Senate seats, Governorships, state legislatures…
This is a place where I actually agree with you. (In a moment, I’ll share something I typed up a day or two ago, when someone brought up Clinton in my LJ.)
> [@](#):
>
> \*Of course \* Clinton is a consummate politician. I fervently, absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with that. But what good has it done anyone besides Bill?
It did _the country_ and _the world_ a lot of good. See below.
> [@](#):
>
> In 1992 the Democratic Party made a devil’s bargain with Bill (and Hillary). And, like all devil’s bargains, it has gone sour.
There are worse sins than to do good for your country and the world, at the cost of your party’s well-being. (Unfortunately, the latter cost now includes eight years of GWB, who has undone most of the good that Clinton accomplished, and then some.)
Here’s that piece. (FWIW, a comment of mine about bearing false witness was what drew a response about Clinton, hence that last paragraph.)
> [@](#):
>
> Ah yes, Clinton.
>
> You know, I’ve dissed Clinton quite often over the years; his record is kinda mixed, and one of the things that contributed to that (at least, in the sense that it gave his political opponents some serious ammunition) was his failure to keep his fly zipped.
>
> His deeper failing, his fundamental failing, was the reality that it was never clear just what, if anything, he would fight for, come hell or high water. What principles, what programs, anything. And the result of that was his leaving the Democratic Party much weaker in 2001 than it had been in 1991. I will probably hold that against him as long as I live.
>
> OTOH, he did his level best to do right by the _country_, and the world. He balanced the budget; he left office with Social Security fully funded through 2042, and needing only minor tweaks to be solvent through the 2070s. (Still true, btw.) His team acted quickly to keep economic crises in Mexico (1995, I think), East Asia (1998), and elsewhere from having worldwide repercussions. He acted to bring peace to the Balkans, and was excoriated by some dumb-ass governor for the effect it had on troop readiness for future conflicts. He may not have been as effective against terrorism as I’d like, but he at least took it seriously, although he was hampered by a Congress that didn’t. (Two embassies were blown up in the summer of 1998, but to them, a different kind of blow job took pride of place.) Despite that, his team was at least able to prevent the Millennium Plot at the end of 1999.
>
> And, yes, he lied under oath about the aforementioned blowjob. Did he bear false witness _against_ anyone? Nope. Did he bear false witness, in a more general sense? Yep. But I’m more than willing to forgive him. It was something he was cornered into doing, by opponents who were out to destroy him and weren’t particular about how. I can’t say I would have done any better, had I been in the same situation.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/171 "2004-11-24T17:54:39Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> Oh for pete’s sake, **Liberal** , feel free to join the real world at any time.
The real world? In the real world, he lied to the court, to America, and to his family, was cited for contempt, thrown out of the bar, and impeached — and still you grope to make excuses for him. I think you need to wake the fuck up.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/172 "2004-11-24T18:07:56Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> The real world? In the real world, he lied to the court, to America, and to his family, was cited for contempt, thrown out of the bar, and impeached — and still you grope to make excuses for him. I think you need to wake the fuck up.
You’re the one who wants to distill this whole thing down to one simple equation: Clinton = evil. There’s a lot more to it than that, as any thinking person can easily see. You choose to allow the randomly firing synapses that passes for thinking in your brain cell to be ruled by hatred instead.
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### Author:  [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/173 "2004-11-24T18:10:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> The real ragedy of Bill Clinton was that he needlessly alienated potential supporters! He could have done SO much! In my opinion, America was a country in need of massive reform…we have a huge, inefficient beaurocracy, and a non-responsive government. We are faced with so many challenges: the end of the bipolar world, the end of cheap oil, the end of nationalism and the rise of religious fanaticism. What did Bill do? He ALIENATED everybody! I see the 1994 meltdown as a tremendous REPUDIATION of Clinton and every idea he proposed!
> Take healthcare: he (Clinton) had the reputation as a concilator. Therefore, he was in an excellent position to propose fundamental reforms. What did he do? He allowed hs power-mad wife to set up her own healthcare plan, and hold secret meetings , closed to public scrutiny! He should have known better!
> And the countless betrayals of the public trust…take the 300+ FBI files that they somehow borrowd from the FBI…what was that all about? Instead of an explanation, HRC saya that Craig Livingston did it all by hisself.
> As others have said, never was the opportubities greater…but Bill Clinton failed the test miserably, and we are all worse off because of it.
> When do you think the first scholorley assessment of the Clinton regime will come out?
I’m glad this is the Pit…
Ralph, I don’t want to be a grammar or spelling nazi… but your post makes my eyes bleed. And when I see the ignorance of the content…
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/174 "2004-11-24T19:48:06Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> Don’t ever tell me what I do or not believe unless you can back it up with cites. Why is it that whenever somebody, even somebody who voted for Clinton and thinks he was hounded, ever points out the fact that he lied under oath is automatically insulted and denigrated? You know, with idiots like you and **Evil Captor** , I’m begining to see why more and more why the Democrats are losing the moderates because of this kind of shit.
If you don’t like being insulted, don’t go around calling people liars and then lie your ass off. Kinda asking for it.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/175 "2004-11-24T19:53:55Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> Count me as one who believes the entire Clinton fiasco was politically motivated, that the hounders had vicious and horrible motives, that a blowjob is certainly nothing to get bent out of shape about (unless one is Clinton’s wife), and that a normally superb and consumate politician did one of the stupidest things in his life by _lying under oath_. That was the opening that the rabid and venomous hyenas had been praying for all along. If he’d simply stood up and taken his lumps (as he had to eventually anyway), the impeachment would never have happened.
I’m with you up until that last bit about lying under oath. He was working under advice of legal counsel there, IIRC. Plus, I suspect the rabid Repugs would have impeached Clinton for SOMETHING sooner or later. They thought they had Clinton on the blowjob, thought the rest of the country would go along with it, and got VERY VERY nervous when the polls kept saying the public knew it was all a bunch of bullshit and that the blowjob which lay at the heart of the matter was none of their business – or the Pubbies’. Man, those Republicans stink, they stink to high heaven. I’d forgotten how much I dislike them. The impeachment plus the stolen 2000 election – man what a bunch of total assholes. I don’t know how they stand it.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/176 "2004-11-24T19:54:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> He didn’t plead the fifth. He lied.
My point was that CYA is essential enough as a principle of American Justice that the founding fathers put it into the bill of rights.
In other words, if you claim he had a responsibility to admit to getting a blowjob, you are saying he had to incriminate himself. And, IIRC, a defendant can’t be accused of perjury for saying he didn’t commit a crime. (which, by the way, oral sex is under D.C statitues, also, IIRC)
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/177 "2004-11-24T19:56:10Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#):
>
> \ Man, those Republicans stink, they stink to high heaven. I’d forgotten how much I dislike them. The impeachment plus the stolen 2000 election – man what a bunch of total assholes. I don’t know how they stand it.
Careful now… painting with too wide a brush isn’t an advantage.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/178 "2004-11-24T19:56:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> [http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/clinton/wrightsorder13.html](http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/clinton/wrightsorder13.html)
> He didn’t plead the fifth. He lied.
Pay attention, boy, I can whip your ass on this one all day long.
**It was about the blowjob.**
The blowjob.
The blowjob.
The lie was just the pretext, and everybody knows it.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/179 "2004-11-24T19:57:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Careful now… painting with too wide a brush isn’t an advantage.
You’re right, it’s just the Republican leadership and everyone who goes along with them on shit like this. A few million rathre than 50 million.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-slips-leash-jennings-critical/275807/180 "2004-11-24T20:17:11Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> You’re the one who wants to distill this whole thing down to one simple equation: Clinton = evil. There’s a lot more to it than that, as any thinking person can easily see. You choose to allow the randomly firing synapses that passes for thinking in your brain cell to be ruled by hatred instead.
Nonsense. I like Bill Clinton. It is Hillary that I hate. Just because someone broke the law doesn’t mean I hate them. He has already explained why he did what he did, so I don’t need anything from you in that regard. He did it because he could.
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