# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2084 "2016-10-13T19:09:35Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Carter skipped one debate, leaving the floor to Reagan and Anderson, by the way. It did not end well for Carter, obviously. At least in that case, the reason Carter didn’t show up was over an argument as to whether Anderson should be there. (Back then you didn’t have the Committee for Presidential Debates as a quasi-official ruling body no one really wants to cross.) And in fact it was the last debate, with just Carter and Reagan, that absolutely killed him; the Reagan-Anderson debate hurt no one but Anderson. In the case of 2016 Debate 3, neither candidate has any plausible reason to refuse to show up, and refusing to do so would be dreadful for them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2085 "2016-10-13T19:13:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I was sufficiently concerned about Hillary making a misstep in the first debate that I didn’t watch it. I don’t think that Trump is capable of doing better than he did in the second debate, and we know he’s capable of doing a lot worse. If she was able to hold her ground like she did in the second despite his attacks I’m not worried about the third. The second debate, I’m convinced, shows Trump at his calmest, most in-control, and most erudite. He’s expressed relief that he doesn’t have to campaign that way any more. At the third, I expect him to talk over everyone else and largely ignore the moderators except to insult them. I expect the main effect of the debate to be a re-examination of presidential debate rules to prevent such a performance in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2086 "2016-10-13T19:16:03Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > NYT responds to Trump threat. > > [Aw, snap!](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuqivY3WIAAPFpY.jpg) That was truly a thing of beauty. Thanks for sharing that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2087 "2016-10-13T19:27:13Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > It is strange the 11 yr old Bush tape didn’t surface till now. But Trump being asked about it was natural, Cooper just doing his job to press until he got a denial from Trump of actions, then not strange that the combination of the tape and Trump’s denial of actions would make accusers to the contrary come forward when they didn’t earlier. So as far as the sexual misconduct complex of Trump-negative events, the timing of the video leak seems possibly deliberate, but the rest of the domino’s fell naturally. > . I saw an article that Billy Bush himself outed the tape while bragging about it at the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2088 "2016-10-13T19:27:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > NYT responds to Trump threat. > > [Aw, snap!](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuqivY3WIAAPFpY.jpg) That letter was sent by email and I could still hear the mic hit the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2089 "2016-10-13T19:35:46Z")
Yeah that letter will go down in history and you can bet David E. McCraw knew it ! ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2090 "2016-10-13T19:37:06Z")
My mom is a narcissist, and I also had one at my workplace. I’ve realised what is their - and Trumps - secret weapon. It is their expectation, even after doing the most abnormal things, to still be treated normally afterwards. Let that sink in for a minute. The expectation, that is so strong, we - subconsciously - go along with their expectation of how we will behave. Normal people, KNOW when they’ve behaved outrageously. And they behave in such a way that tells us, subconsciously, they expect our ire, our scorn, our disgust. And we feel free to act accordingly. Teflon Don is teflon because he genuinely expects people to like and believe him. When he says “believe me” it is a command, said with the force of his own conviction. And people comply. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2091 "2016-10-13T19:40:27Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > NYT responds to Trump threat. > > [Aw, snap!](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuqivY3WIAAPFpY.jpg) What case would Trump have for libel? I don’t think the paper said that he did “touch the women inappropriately” (as CNN put it) - just that the women said that he did. Assuming they did, in fact, say that, there’s no lie, and therefore it’s not libel. Defamation of character, maybe, but (a) that would be against the women making the accusations, not the paper printing them, and (b) we have already seen what the NYT thinks of Trump’s character. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2092 "2016-10-13T19:40:57Z")
[I’ve looked up what an imploding narcissist looks like.](https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/) > [@](#): > > Ironically, most narcissists are not really bothered by their symptoms. They have an amazing ability to rationalize their problems or blame them on someone or something else – they very rarely take any personal responsibility for their problems. However, their personality disorder often does create significant problems in their life. These may include: > > Alcohol or drug abuse > Frequent relationship conflicts with significant others, friends, family members, coworkers, and employees or employers > Depression > Anxiety > Suicidal tendencies > Co-occurring mental disorders > > **Narcissists are particularly vulnerable to depression if their world implodes**. As long as they can stay buoyed by their inflated sense of superiority and success in life, symptoms of depression are kept at bay. But if things spiral out of control and they hit rock bottom, the depression they feel is very real. It may lead to self-medicating with alcohol or drugs, and can also lead to suicidal thoughts and actions. On the rare occasion when a narcissist does seek therapy on their own, depression is often the motivating factor. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2093 "2016-10-13T19:49:31Z")
The first I heard that people on the left were trying to think of strategies for Clinton to miss the third debate was on Rush Limbaugh’s program. I heard it driving home from work and, as per my usual, I responded to the radio, “bull-fucking-shit, Rush, you fat pile of piles.” And now I see it’s being discussed in this very thread. My crest; it has fallen. But of course Clinton should attend the debate. And I think she shouldn’t even acknowledge Trump’s presence. Don’t shake his hand, don’t nod toward him, don’t utter his name. Answer every question from the moderator as though it were an interview at Camp David and if Trump starts to interrupt, let him and let the moderators shut him down and pick it back up where she left off. Can you imagine the level ire we’d see out of Trump if he were ignored? Did you see Fatal Attraction? \*I won’t be ignored, Dan! \*Multiply that by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2094 "2016-10-13T19:52:47Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > What case would Trump have for libel? I don’t think the paper said that he did “touch the women inappropriately” (as CNN put it) - just that the women said that he did. Assuming they did, in fact, say that, there’s no lie, and therefore it’s not libel. > > Defamation of character, maybe, but (a) that would be against the women making the accusations, not the paper printing them, and (b) we have already seen what the NYT thinks of Trump’s character. Repeating a libel is libel. You can’t get away with saying “I’m just quoting what HE said!” Libel is a form of defamation. Both the newspapers and the person who is being quoted can be accused of it. (No one has brought this up yet but it always is, so I’ll just get it out of the way. Libel is public defamation in permanent form—published, recorded, broadcast, etc. Slander is private defamation in ephemeral form—whispers behind closed doors.) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2095 "2016-10-13T19:58:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Repeating a libel is libel. You can’t get away with saying “I’m just quoting what HE said!” > > Libel is a form of defamation. Both the newspapers and the person who is being quoted can be accused of it. > > (No one has brought this up yet but it always is, so I’ll just get it out of the way. Libel is public defamation in permanent form—published, recorded, broadcast, etc. Slander is private defamation in ephemeral form—whispers behind closed doors.) There’s got to be a limit somewhere though, doesn’t there? CNN is reporting that the NYT published an article that 2 women claim to have been assaulted by Trump - is CNN possibly guilty of libel? I just said that CNN is reporting that the NYT published the article - am I possibly guilty of libel? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2096 "2016-10-13T20:02:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Repeating a libel is libel. You can’t get away with saying “I’m just quoting what HE said!” Regarding a [public figure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure), as long as you can reasonably believe the allegations, actually, you can get away with that. > [@](#): > > A public figure (such as a politician, celebrity, or business leader) cannot base a lawsuit on incorrect harmful statements unless there is proof that the writer or publisher acted with actual malice (knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth). In this particular case, the NYTimes talked with the accusers and several people close to each accuser to verify that the accuser hasn’t just started talking about the story in the last couple of days. Furthermore, Trump is on tape stating that he commits assault in the same essential manner as that described by the accusers. “Reckless disregard for the truth” would be a hard sell. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2097 "2016-10-13T20:04:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Repeating a libel is libel. You can’t get away with saying “I’m just quoting what HE said!” > > Libel is a form of defamation. Both the newspapers and the person who is being quoted can be accused of it. > > (No one has brought this up yet but it always is, so I’ll just get it out of the way. Libel is public defamation in permanent form—published, recorded, broadcast, etc. Slander is private defamation in ephemeral form—whispers behind closed doors.) As is very well known, the standard for libel in the United States regarding public figures is a very difficult thing to prove. For Trump to succeed in a lawsuit, he must basically prove that the New York Times knew that they were publishing a lie for the purpose of causing Trump harm. Let’s get real: this is never going to be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2098 "2016-10-13T20:04:56Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > His defense was “Look at her […] You tell me what you think” > > [Tweet w/ video clip](https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/786623720072749056) Ah. Pretty soon, his toadies will be saying, “He meant look at her _story!_ See, he even said, ‘look at her words’. He was totally totally not taking about her appearance! Nope. It’s only the real misogynists like Hillary Clinton who think that!!” Jesus wept. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2099 "2016-10-13T20:06:04Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So whaddya suppose Manafort’s up to these days? I haven’t seen him. [Coincidence…?](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1962638/putin-orders-all-russian-children-and-relatives-studying-abroad-to-return-to-the-motherland-as-he-prepares-for-wwiii/)😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2100 "2016-10-13T20:10:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agreed with the folks saying Clinton debating is good, not bad. … It’s truly the only time any of the undecided Rs or wavering Trumpees will ever see Clinton directly, rather than a Breitbart- or Faux-driven caricature of her. > > Her only demographic to make further gains with is those folks: undecided Rs or wavering Trumpees. So that’s where she has to go. … I haven’t seen this reason-for-Clinton-to-show seconded yet, and it’s worth highlighting. (It must be stressful for the true-believer Trumpsters to watch Clinton being so calm and so conversant with the facts; in their heads they must be trying to see, instead, the demon they’ve been assured that she is, but she doesn’t make those mental gymnastics easy.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2101 "2016-10-13T20:15:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Regarding a [public figure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure), as long as you can reasonably believe the allegations, actually, you can get away with that. > [@Ravenman](#): > > As is very well known, the standard for libel in the United States regarding public figures is a very difficult thing to prove. While true, this issue is beside the point I was making. Repeating a libel is libel, regardless of whether the plaintiff is a public figure or not. It’s a separate issue that in the case of a public figure, this is likely not libel in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2102 "2016-10-13T20:17:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > While true, this issue is beside the point I was making. Repeating a libel is libel, regardless of whether the plaintiff is a public figure or not. It’s a separate issue that in the case of a public figure, this is likely not libel in the first place. Ah, gotcha. Good show, carry on and all :). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2103 "2016-10-13T20:17:22Z")
As if Trump’s offenses aren’t doing enough damage to the GOP, [Rush Limbaugh decides to share his “enlightened” views towards rape.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rush-limbaugh-hints-left-strict-consensual-sex-article-1.2828825) > [@from article](#): > > “The left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent,” Limbaugh said during his namesake radio show Wednesday. “If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police.” You can’t make this shit up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=106)