# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2444 "2016-10-15T14:22:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I tend to agree. I think a lot of the fanatic support for Trump is coming from people who feel they’ve had to live in hiding. They don’t just want to be racist and sexist - they want to be openly racist and sexist. Trump is telling them it’s not just okay to think terrible things; he’s telling people they can say them out loud like he does. That’s why every time Trump says something horrible, the general public is appalled - but his inner core of supporters loves him even more. IMO this is spot-on. But I’ll take it a step further. You said “Trump is telling them it’s not just okay to think terrible things; he’s telling people they can say them out loud like he does.” I think Trump is actively promoting the idea that acting on all that speech is not only going to be socially acceptable once he’s Emperor, but will be actual US government policy. Backed by US government action. And the deplorable base is lovin’ it even more than they love Big Macs and fries. While some parts of the mainstream R base are stroking their chin and mostly thinking, but not yet much saying “Well, you know, a little bit of that sure wouldn’t hurt. (Me.)” ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2445 "2016-10-15T14:25:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > So your position is that it’s reasonable to _assume_ that unsourced material is authentic? It’s reasonable to assume Wikileaked purported original documents are authentic after their contents become points of public contention and the purported authors don’t claim they are fake. It doesn’t mean the first person discovering apparently important information in them can assume it’s real prior to getting the purported author’s side of the story. It doesn’t apply to documents further handled by dubious news agencies (eg the Podesta/Sputnik News item Trump picked up on), which all Russian outlets basically are now. That’s not a US centric view it’s a fact of Putin’s regime now. If the authors claim a particular doc/passage is false or altered, then it gets murky. But that has yet to happen AFAIK with original Clinton related Wikileaks stuff. For example Jennifer Palmieri said of the Catholic-bashing email, ‘I don’t recognize that’, but that’s pretty different from author and recipients jointly saying ‘no we didn’t sent/receive that, that’s a fake’. The reasonable conclusion is still that it’s real. I have major problems with Wikileaks and moreover Russia’s policy of virtual war on the US (war IMO is seldom a matter of absolute right, but we are entitled to protect ourselves and fight back). I’ve felt that way since the US surveillance/WOT leaks. But if stuff _is_ leaked, passages become a point of contention, and the authors don’t claim it’s false, the Occam’s Razor conclusion is that’s because it’s genuine and they fear if they claim it’s false somebody else in possession of it pre-leak will speak up. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2446 "2016-10-15T14:33:55Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Whether or not that’s enough votes to win or lose an election here or there isn’t really the point. The point that he has fundamentally changed the society we live in. It’s now okay for 30-40 of the population to be openly racist and misogynistic and to threaten people who disagree with them with violence. > > We no longer live in the same America that we lived in before Trump came down that escalator. We live in a meaner, uglier place where bullies are empowered to lash out. Trump may have lost the election, but he will have an impact on all of us beyond this election, and who knows how long it will be before we can swing the pendulum back. Agreed on all points. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2447 "2016-10-15T14:34:01Z")
Trump has literally been on a tirade for 3 weeks, effectively since the Machado answer at the first debate, which may very well qualify as the most effective Presidential debate _moment_ of the TV era (if not ever) for the immediate impact it had on the opposing candidate. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2448 "2016-10-15T14:41:23Z")
I don’t get where the idea “it’s okay to be openly racist and misogynistic” is rooted in day-to-day reality. The people who are doing this are doing it at Trump rallies. Hiding behind Twitter handles. Making b\*\*\*\*\*\*\* excuses, like the Supreme Court, for their support. Hell, even the size of his rallies are shrinking. (Hillary packed in a Charlotte NC auditorium, with over a thousand people still standing outside, while Trump still had room for 1,500 people, three days later in the same place.) Trump has lost. It is beginning to be time for the TV networks to stop repeating every idiotic thing the man says. When I see someone calling a woman a “bitch” and then smirking because he knows he can get away with it, I will concede this point. But just because a declining number of idiots are acting this way at Trump rallies, does not mean the entire country has been coarsened. Regardless, I hope every person who feels this way has the moral courage to speak out, in person, when one hears something offensive. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2449 "2016-10-15T14:48:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I hope every person who feels this way has the moral courage to speak out. For if you don’t, and your complaints are made, say, here at the SDMB and not to the offending party, you’re just as bad as the ones who are doing it. I love the smell of victim blaming in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2450 "2016-10-15T14:58:53Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > You think that Male Trump supporters are going to be convinced to vote for Clinton by their Wife? > > My thought is that with mail in ballots, it’s much more likely that in a household/marriage it is much more likely that both people will know for certain who the other is voting for. And, through intimidation, the Man may make the Wife vote for Trump. I think at least as likely. I think you far underestimate how strong women are and weak most sexist pigs are. Most marriages, including in non-college educated working class households, are not of abusive males domineering over subservient women. My sense is that there are more husbands who fear making their wives angry at or displeased with them than there are women afraid of their husbands. All social classes. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2451 "2016-10-15T15:13:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I love the smell of victim blaming in the morning. How is that victim blaming? It’s Bullying 101: bystander responsibility. Silence is tacit approval. Inaction is not an option when presented with hateful speech. FWIW I concur that Trump in fact has not made hateful speech more acceptable. It’s been there. He’s merely gathered them and gotten cameras to point that way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2452 "2016-10-15T15:14:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I think at least as likely. > > I think you far underestimate how strong women are and weak most sexist pigs are. > > Most marriages, including in non-college educated working class households, are not of abusive males domineering over subservient women. My sense is that there are more husbands who fear making their wives angry at or displeased with them than there are women afraid of their husbands. All social classes. Wives forcing their husbands to vote a certain way? Yeah, I don’t believe this happens, not to any significant degree. ---
**Author:** ![Musky\_Moon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90db22/32.png) [@Musky\_Moon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musky_Moon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2453 "2016-10-15T15:15:03Z")
Just speculation, on my part, but I wonder if the reason Burnett and MGM have been reluctant to release Apprentice out takes is because it opened them up to lawsuits for hiring a sexual predator. Clearly, IANAL, but if there’s tape of him actually doing something illegal, wouldn’t they be at risk? Either way, it’s very fishy that they have been hiding behind a wall of law suit threats. There’s probably thousands of hours of footage and you just know that that troll is on tape doing something vulgar. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2454 "2016-10-15T15:20:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wives forcing their husbands to vote a certain way? Yeah, I don’t believe this happens, not to any significant degree. But husbands forcing their wives to vote a certain way you do believe happens to a significant degree? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2455 "2016-10-15T15:22:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But husbands forcing their wives to vote a certain way you do believe happens to a significant degree? _Forcing_ them? No, I would doubt that. Not to any politically significant degree. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2456 "2016-10-15T15:24:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How is that victim blaming? Because he’s saying those of us under attack, and this is an attack on all women, are just as bad as Trump is if we don’t “complain to the offending party.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2457 "2016-10-15T15:26:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Whether or not that’s enough votes to win or lose an election here or there isn’t really the point. The point that he has fundamentally changed the society we live in. It’s now okay for 30-40 of the population to be openly racist and misogynistic and to threaten people who disagree with them with violence. > > We no longer live in the same America that we lived in before Trump came down that escalator. We live in a meaner, uglier place where bullies are empowered to lash out. Trump may have lost the election, but he will have an impact on all of us beyond this election, and who knows how long it will be before we can swing the pendulum back. I disagree, Trump is getting soundly rejected. If anything this people are going to learn it is not ok to be how they are. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2458 "2016-10-15T15:31:30Z")
Trump supporters don’t see this as Trump being rejected. For them, it’s all just a conspiracy to suppress the Truth. Some of Trump’s supporters are openly turning to violence. Meanwhile, the Republican establishment has still not figured out a way to reject Donald while still courting his voters. That’s why Republicans are all standing by their man. On November 9th, Trump’s voters will believe that they’ve been shafted. The Republican elite is not going to do anything to alienate them. This doesn’t end on election day. Republicans aren’t going to “get their party back”. This is their life, now. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2459 "2016-10-15T15:46:04Z")
This is fucked up. > **[Gun-toting Trump supporters 'protest' at office of Daily Kos candidate Jane...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/14/1582435/-Gun-toting-Trump-supporters-protest-at-office-of-Daily-Kos-candidate-Jane-Dittmar)** > > This is terrifying, and exactly what Donald Trump is setting the stage​ for, with all his talk of rigged and stolen elections. Two Trump supporters spent an entire day sitting outside the campaign office of Jane Dittmar, a Democratic House... Straight up voter intimidation, just a step away from terrorism and political violence. Fortunately, his crowds are getting smaller and smaller, which probably is a sign that there is less and less support. How much less is anyone’s guess. > **[Shrinking Audiences for Trump](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/15/1582743/-Shrinking-Audiences-for-Trump)** > > Trump support is shrinking. > > >  The Nation’s Joan Walsh: A Shrinking Trump Mocks His Accusers to Shrinking Crowds > > > At a recent Trump rally the crowd was far below capacity, around 4000, at a venue where Obama attracted about 10,000... A possible explanation might be that as new sex assault claims come out, the more rational of the Trump supporters who just strongly dislike Hillary, Obama, and ‘communists’ will start to peel away. Or maybe they’ll still consider voting Trump but aren’t as inspired to drive hours to see his rallies (an enthusiasm problem). I suspect that as more voters defect in disgust or simply stay out of sight, we’re going to see the absolute worst of humanity at some of these pogroms, er, rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2460 "2016-10-15T15:49:19Z")
Not quite an N-bomb, but… > [@](#): > > While shooting the 13th season of The Apprentice, Donald Trump repeatedly used a racial slur to refer to rapper and contestant Lil Jon—even after several producers urged him to stop, three staffers on the show told The Daily Beast. > > During an episode of a season that first aired in 2013 (dubbed All-Star Celebrity Apprentice), the “Turn Down for What” singer was tasked, along with the other celebrity contenders, with mounting competing displays around and inside glass trucks in order to promote hair-care products. In the heat of competition, Lil Jon bought and donned an Uncle Sam costume to help advertise the “beautiful” hair product. > > During the day’s shoot, Trump himself caught wind of this gimmick and began referring to Lil Jon around Apprentice staff as “Uncle Tom” instead of Uncle Sam. > **[Donald Trump Kept Calling Lil Jon an ‘Uncle Tom’ on Celebrity Apprentice](https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-kept-calling-lil-jon-an-uncle-tom-on-celebrity-apprentice)** > > The Donald didn’t seem to understand that the term was a slur, and kept using it even after that was explained to him. Several staffers on the show tried, in vain, to get Trump to stop saying it. On Twitter, Lil John confirmed the story and said that when he confronted Trump about it, Trump finally stopped using the term. Yeah, yeah, I know. “Why can’t white people say the word ‘nigger’?!” “The blacks say it too!” “I remember when we used to say ‘colored’ and now you’re telling me _this_ is offensive?!” “A man of Trump’s generation shouldn’t be expected to keep up with what they want to be called!!” Does that about cover it? Did I miss any? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2461 "2016-10-15T15:58:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Because he’s saying those of us under attack, and this is an attack on all women, are just as bad as Trump is if we don’t “complain to the offending party.” Is the only offensive attack you care about his attack on you? I’ve read you posting for a while now and I don’t think so. You have not struck me as someone who would be silent in the face of someone casually stating racist or other hateful beliefs. My sense is that you get the importance of all of us making it clear that we not approve in real time when it occurs. We may not be as bad if we do not but if we do not we do share culpability. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2462 "2016-10-15T16:07:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Is the only offensive attack you care about his attack on you? > > I’ve read you posting for a while now and I don’t think so. You have not struck me as someone who would be silent in the face of someone casually stating racist or other hateful beliefs. My sense is that you get the importance of all of us making it clear that we not approve in real time when it occurs. We may not be as bad if we do not but if we do not we do share culpability. Then you don’t agree with what I quoted. And no, the only offensive attack is not the one addressed to me, but it’s a fantastic example that some of us are the targets of the attacks. JohnT’s words did not make any attempt to distinguish, at all. He just wants to complain about people who only post on the SDMB instead of posting on Twitter, so he attacks them. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2463 "2016-10-15T16:09:04Z")
> [@Musky\_Moon](#): > > Just speculation, on my part, but I wonder if the reason Burnett and MGM have been reluctant to release Apprentice out takes is because it opened them up to lawsuits for hiring a sexual predator. Clearly, IANAL, but if there’s tape of him actually doing something illegal, wouldn’t they be at risk? Either way, it’s very fishy that they have been hiding behind a wall of law suit threats. There’s probably thousands of hours of footage and you just know that that troll is on tape doing something vulgar. MGM isn’t a news organization and doesn’t feel any duty to release stuff damaging to Trump, and they are correct. Release it or not, they would already be open to legal action in your scenario and so I imagine they know what’s in there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=124)