# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2644 "2016-10-16T21:56:44Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > You have the benefit of years of perspective and other people’s opinion. Not so regarding said topic in 1984. You would have readily dismissed the idea in 1984? . . . Bit of a highjack, but, yes, many of us did dismiss the SDI in 1984. It was technologically infeasible. It would have required computational power beyond what was obtainable at that time. It was a fantasy idea, just like Trump’s wall with Mexico. It could not have worked. (Computing power, and space technology, have improved: it might be possible today. It would also cost 500 billion. So it’s still politically impossible.) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2645 "2016-10-16T22:21:02Z")
Mince, I was 14 years old in 1984, and a founding member of a county-wide teen organization to educate the public and Congress on the futility, danger, and waste of the Reagan administration’s SDI initiative. Sorry you and your ilk were so late for the bus. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2646 "2016-10-16T22:28:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pence wants a political life after Trump. Heh, good luck with that, Mike. You have as much of a political future as Christie. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2647 "2016-10-16T22:29:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Screw Arizona, fucking _Texas_ is in play. Lose that and you might as well plant daisies. Arizona’s in play, for real. Texas is only kinda sorta on the edge of being in play, since one poll showing Hillary only 4% back doesn’t mean she’s really 4% back. (Ipsos has her 25 points behind in Texas in a poll taken Oct. 7-13.) Tell you what: if Texas goes for Hillary, I’ll be so overjoyed that I’ll let Dopers vote on which charity I should direct a $500 contribution to. I can probably get a mod who knows me IRL to verify that I’ve made the contribution, if that should happen. But I expect my money’s all too safe. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2648 "2016-10-16T23:19:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Tell you what: if Texas goes for Hillary, I’ll be so overjoyed that I’ll let Dopers vote on which charity I should direct a $500 contribution to. I can probably get a mod who knows me IRL to verify that I’ve made the contribution, if that should happen. But I expect my money’s all too safe. I would make the same promise, and I live in Texas and will be voting for Clinton. She won’t come close to winning here, but hopefully Trump will win by significantly less than the last few R candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2649 "2016-10-16T23:21:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Heh, good luck with that, Mike. You have as much of a political future as Christie. I disagree. Pence has gotten props from the GOP rank and file for his VP debate performance, and has generally played the good soldier out on the campaign trail. If/when Trump loses, even badly, on Nov. 8, I suspect Pence will be the de facto GOP front-runner for 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2650 "2016-10-16T23:21:45Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Trump and his supporters don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. That those that feel they are economically challenged think that a rich man (born on third base with a silver spoon in his mouth) that is also bad at business is going to do anything but help himself shows just how uniformed his supporters are. > > Perhaps all his supporters wish they where also born with a billon in their pocket. And that trump will simply open up manufacturing/mining jobs just by getting the supervisor to open the gate to the factory. They think it’s that simple. [http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161016/3b4b17879150cfec140409bccd80a233.jpg](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161016/3b4b17879150cfec140409bccd80a233.jpg) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2651 "2016-10-16T23:45:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I disagree. Pence has gotten props from the GOP rank and file for his VP debate performance, and has generally played the good soldier out on the campaign trail. If/when Trump loses, even badly, on Nov. 8, I suspect Pence will be the de facto GOP front-runner for 2020. I agree with your point that Pence will get insider brownie points for being a good soldier and fighting the good fight. Not the food fight. IOW, Pence is China to Trump’s North Korea. Where you and I part company is on 2020. History in both parties has not been kind to the heir apparent picked immediately after the previous campaign ends. Clinton is almost unique in being the nominee this time as well as having been the heir apparent for the last 4 years. And even she had to fight a surprisingly intense fight w Sanders to hold on. Couple that with the yuge wildcard that the R party is now pulled in three very different directions: alt-right, Tea Party, and the ordinary conventional Rs. As such we have room for massive amounts of “interesting” politics in the R tent between now and 2020. Pence is IMO unlikely to prevail; his positional advantage is small and his liabilities are large. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2652 "2016-10-16T23:51:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > if Texas goes for Hillary, I’ll be so overjoyed that I’ll let Dopers vote on which charity I should direct a $500 contribution to. I can probably get a mod who knows me IRL to verify that I’ve made the contribution, if that should happen. But I expect my money’s all too safe. Why don’t you just earmark it for\* Trump/Whoever 2020 \* right now as a gesture of gratitude? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2653 "2016-10-17T00:04:37Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Computing power, and space technology, have improved: it might be possible today. It would also cost 500 billion. So it’s still politically impossible.) The basic objections remain, and technology has not obviated them. I’ll let Wikipedia summarize Bethe’s objections to the program: > [@](#): > > Physicist Hans Bethe, who worked with Edward Teller on both the atomic bomb and hydrogen bomb at Los Alamos, claimed a laser defense shield was unfeasible. He said that a defensive system was costly and difficult to build yet simple to destroy, and claimed that the Soviets could easily use thousands of decoys to overwhelm it during a nuclear attack. He believed that the only way to stop the threat of nuclear war was through diplomacy and dismissed the idea of a technical solution to the Cold War, saying that a defense shield could be viewed as threatening because it would limit or destroy Soviet offensive capabilities while leaving the American offense intact. In March 1984, Bethe coauthored a 106-page report for the Union of Concerned Scientists that concluded “the X-ray laser offers no prospect of being a useful component in a system for ballistic missile defense.” In a deeper sense, asking whether it would be possible today is wrong-headed: We’re not in a Cold War today. We’re not bound to the game theory which makes a purely defensive weapons system an amazingly dangerous creation which might provoke an immediate and overwhelming attack. That said, we haven’t solved the decoy problem, and we haven’t solved the “just shoot down the satellites” problem, either. Theater-scale missile defense systems are feasible, for some definitions of feasibility, but a global missile defense system is too hard in a purely technical sense. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2654 "2016-10-17T00:58:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Arizona’s in play, for real. Texas is only kinda sorta on the edge of being in play, since one poll showing Hillary only 4% back doesn’t mean she’s really 4% back. (Ipsos has her 25 points behind in Texas in a poll taken Oct. 7-13.) > > Tell you what: if Texas goes for Hillary, I’ll be so overjoyed that I’ll let Dopers vote on which charity I should direct a $500 contribution to. I can probably get a mod who knows me IRL to verify that I’ve made the contribution, if that should happen. But I expect my money’s all too safe. All I can say is, as a Texan, voting Democrat is going to feel slightly less futile this time around. Which feels nice. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2655 "2016-10-17T01:02:37Z")
Here’s how the spin will look, I predict: "It’s not us inciting violence, it’s the left with their non stop media campaign to misrepresent the Republican candidate. Non stop, ‘He’s a liar, a danger, a predator!’ This is all on them! And perhaps it will work? Perhaps the coverage of the Don will be tempered? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2656 "2016-10-17T01:15:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > \*\*\*Let’s not get complacent, please. > > * * * > > Six points is a certain win _if the polls are reliable_. But not if there are two million Americans too ashamed to say “Trump” to a pollster but happy to pull that lever spitefully when alone in the polling booth. Two million isn’t enough. And the “shy Tory” thing is baloney. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2657 "2016-10-17T01:45:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Two million isn’t enough. > > And the “shy Tory” thing is baloney. Is that anything like trickydick’s “Silent Majority”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2658 "2016-10-17T01:49:37Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Is that anything like trickydick’s “Silent Majority”? Also known as the “Bradley effect” or the “Wilder effect” for Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley and Virginia governor Doug Wilder. But that was specifically for polls that were supposedly skewed because respondents wouldn’t admit that they planned to vote against a black candidate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2659 "2016-10-17T01:52:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Also known as the “Bradley effect” or the “Wilder effect” for Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley and Virginia governor Doug Wilder. But that was specifically for polls that were supposedly skewed because respondents wouldn’t admit that they planned to vote against a black candidate. Thing is that I remember that the effect was also pointed out as a reason why Obama was likely to lose. Did not work out that way. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2660 "2016-10-17T02:09:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Is that anything like trickydick’s “Silent Majority”? Nixon’s “Silent Majority” was very real, as evidenced by his massive landslide in 1972: They were the working-class whites who weren’t making noise about ending Vietnam, were largely supportive of Vietnam, and were certainly opposed to the social changes brought about by the later 1960s. Of course, Nixon made the famous speech in 1969, the same year he began to draw down our troop levels in Vietnam and [del]declare defeat[/del] hand over defense of South Vietnam to the South’s own military, as part of the Vietnamization policy. The modern version of that Silent Majority is a lot smaller. It failed to get McCain elected in 2008, failed to get Romney elected in 2012, even in the face of Obamacare and another four years of That Muslim running things, and is largely not voting Trump, given his dismal polling numbers. They may not like the social changes the previous decades have seen, they may even believe that we’re all going to Hell due to _Obergefell_ giving Those People the right to marry, but supporting Trump is a bridge too far. The newer Silent Majority is a lot browner, and a lot more open to progressive ideas. The Democrats are already in a position to garner their votes. The Republicans are actively pissing them off. You don’t need a degree in Political Science to see where this is going in the immediate future. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2661 "2016-10-17T02:34:27Z")
I wonder how long Trump’s toxicity-by-association will last. We’d like to think that those who stood by him will poison candidates forever, but I don’t know that I trust the electorate to keep too long of a memory. The next midterms? Sure. 2020? I’m dubious. At some point, Democrat attempts to play video of so-and-so defending Trump or campaigning with Trump will just look like desperate attempts to avoid current issues. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2662 "2016-10-17T02:50:35Z")
Of course that depends on Trump changing his ways… Nah, not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/2663 "2016-10-17T03:47:34Z")
Okay, what the hell is Daily News Bin? Do the sprinkle satire or distortion into some of their stories? Many of the headlines on the main page look legit, but [Trump tears apart his word-machine at a rally](http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/donald-trump-has-total-meltdown-at-rally-begins-physically-ripping-his-teleprompter-apart/26313/) just seems weird. I mean they do not even speculate that he must have been upset to discover that it was out of croutons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=132) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=134)