# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 167
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3324 "2016-10-23T13:17:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > IIRC, it took about 5 years for most of them to get the message. She was polling pretty well among prospective GOP primary voters in the 2012 cycle, up to the point when it was clear she wasn’t going to run. > > IIRC, there was some incident, 2013ish, where she had such an incredible word salad that even her followers couldn’t parse it, and she finally became almost as much a figure of ridicule to most conservatives as she had been to the rest of us for years. > > Anyway, I expect Trump’s arc to be shorter, for one simple reason: after 2008, Palin still represented The Future to many conservatives, and her expected 2012 run was eagerly anticipated by many on that side of the spectrum. Trump doesn’t have that going for him, obviously. After the election, when it becomes clear he doesn’t have any new direction to lead them in, his fanboys will throw him away like last week’s magazines. Trump’s arc will be shorter, but the white protestant nationalist movement he leaves behind is growing and becoming more dangerous. Moreover, they are threatening this country’s constitutional legitimacy and institutional stability. America’s decline internationally is also going to potentially plague Hillary Clinton and leave Democrats looking weak. We’ve got about 2-4 years to reverse this slide and we’re going to need the cooperation of moderate republicans to do it. Can this happen while keeping Bernie Bros from abandoning Hillary and destroying a left-leaning coalition? If the country fractures into an extreme right wing and a moderate right wing on one hand, and an extreme left wing and a center-left on the other, that’s when the dynamic becomes explosive. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3325 "2016-10-23T13:30:44Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Also, Tom Hanks played the part of Chris Wallace. “Donald, listen; I’m trying to _help_ you, buddy.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3326 "2016-10-23T13:47:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Weird Al on the debates: [“Bad Hombres, Nasty Women”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdBF6h7oH5I)😃 Al is a genius. But that song should come with a Sunday Morning Warning: This song is liable to make your head spin! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3327 "2016-10-23T15:29:38Z")
Some washed-up baseball player [held a rally](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/22/1585821/-Former-MLBer-Curt-Schilling-R-MA-throws-Trump-rally-in-Boston-Tens-of-people-show?detail=email&link_id=20&can_id=0d37b803a1d391518f423634bc31261e&source=email-trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory&email_referrer=trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory___123272&email_subject=i-am-one-of-the-faceless-women), which drew fives of people. Perhaps Massachusetts is not the best place to get Rs whipped into a massive frenzy. Best part of the story, though, is an angry letter to the guy, which coins the term “Trumpster fire”. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3328 "2016-10-23T16:06:33Z")
Schilling’s a Small-Government republican fan who’s had a mad on for the Democrats ever since Lincoln Chafee refused to give his video game company a life-saving loan, on the grounds that Schilling’s company didn’t qualify for the loan and anyway, they were just weeks away from defaulting on their previous loan with no new revenue in sight - so clearly it was a Democratic assassination of a good Republican, what other explanation could there be? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3329 "2016-10-23T16:53:07Z")
Schilling 1/3 because he’s delusional 1/3 because he needs the attention 1/3 because he thinks he’ll make money off of it ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3330 "2016-10-23T17:22:18Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > 1. How long did it take Palin to become a joke _to conservatives_? > > 2. Anyway, I strongly agree with **DigitalC** that the Republican establishment is currently supporting Trump because that’s what the base wants, and they are afraid to alienate their base. Might not have always been the case. Maybe at one point they thought they could manipulate/handle a victorious Trump; I don’t know. But definitely since the AH tape came out, it’s been about placating the base. > > 3. For the general elections - the uninvolved voters probably won’t remember who backed Trump or not, and they are more likely to only vote in Presidential elections anyway. The die-hard democrats were unlikely to be won over anyway. And “I had to back my party’s candidate” will placate some of the others. > > Don’t know what the long-term consequences will be for backers or denoumcers. 1. Palin didn’t lose at the top of a national ticket. In the post Adlai Stevenson era that’s been political death. We’ll see if that applies to Trump himself within the GOP, he’s full of surprises, but it’s still a difference. Also Palin was to most appearances a conservative, or even moderate/conservative (in her brief stint in high office) by GOP standards. She later came a symbolize a shift away from conservatism that presaged Trump’s rightist populism. That might be trivia from a left POV but it’s a real difference within the right. A guy like Bill Kristol at first supported Palin heartily (not wise based on her substance as it turned out, but no reason he wouldn’t ideologically as it appeared), but has been implacably opposed to Trump from the get go. 2. It is that but not only. A lot of people of voting for Trump because they really oppose the Democrats in general and Clinton in particular, not because they like Trump or his brand of rightist populism. Opinions simply differ as to whether Trump’s problems rise to the level of ‘letting’ Clinton win. IOW a lot of the people pissed at Ryan for not (really) supporting Trump don’t particularly like Trump. But the anti-Ryan faction certainly does include people who like Trump or Trumpism, and they are the most ardent. 3. I agree with this. What exact position you took on Trump will not as of now\*affect GOP politicians’ much with general electorate voters in future elections IMO. The Democrats will try to make a litmus test of it (‘nobody who supported him is fit’), it will be base motivator for _them_ for some time to come, but won’t matter much with persuadable voters by and large IMO even 2 yrs from now. Although it may matter a lot in the GOP whether or how much a politician supported Trump. But like you say it’s hard to predict which direction that’s going to go. \*we don’t know if Trump might act much more outrageously from here on, including after the election. OTOH one school of thought is that the ‘rigged’ stuff is a two-fer to motivate elements of the base now for one last long shot at actually winning, and also lowers the bar for a bigger pat on the head to Trump by media etc. when he actually concedes gracefully after all. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3331 "2016-10-23T17:37:56Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Schilling > 1/3 because he’s delusional > 1/3 because he needs the attention > 1/3 because he thinks he’ll make money off of it Shill Schilling shilling? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3332 "2016-10-23T17:39:47Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Schilling > 1/3 because he’s delusional > 1/3 because he needs the attention > 1/3 because he thinks he’ll make money off of it Not to prolong the hijack, but Schilling turned up on Chris Matthews’ show the other night, and proceeded to demonstrate his amateur status by lighting into the host for supposedly claiming that Hillary Clinton “comes (to the debates) armed with the truth” earlier in the program, as an example of media bias, I guess. Matthews denied having said any such thing, and they went back and forth a bit, with Schilling becoming angrily insistent and saying ‘look at the tape’. Later in the program, Matthews did just that. As shown on the tape, what he actually said was that Mrs. Clinton brought her “troops”. i.e. lawyers and policy specialists to the debates. Matthews was making an analogy to a baseball or football team with a deep bench, as compared to Trump, who often comes off as a one-man band. Bit of a Rosanne Rosanadanna moment on Schilling’s part. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvSLTdpVaA) The exchange begins about 4:30. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3333 "2016-10-23T17:47:33Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Also, Tom Hanks played the part of Chris Wallace. I liked Tom Hanks. He has truly proved that while impartial justice may be blind… [Spoiler] …it is NOT a “blind dentist”… 😉 [/Spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3334 "2016-10-23T17:57:39Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > 1. Palin didn’t lose at the top of a national ticket. In the post Adlai Stevenson era that’s been political death. [coughs] _Richard Nixon_ [/coughs] ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3335 "2016-10-23T18:04:47Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > Guys, did Alec Baldwin make comedy history for the fourth week in a row this/last night? I have family visiting, so I was unable to watch. Please fill me in. Love Alec but his Trump is too broad. He has a tightened harumph mouth all the time. I always wanted someone to imitate the fishmouth tunnel effect Donald has. He has a kind of Andrew McCarthy mouth that needs accurate parody. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3336 "2016-10-23T18:09:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > [coughs] _Richard Nixon_ [/coughs] That was just so we could kick him around again. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3337 "2016-10-23T18:19:09Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > Shill Schilling shilling? **TRUMP** is not worth a \*\* PENCE\*\* but a **SHILLING** is a bit more… …nutty. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3338 "2016-10-23T18:34:48Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Maybe he realises that he might have time on his hands, come November 9th. I predict a new campaign theme [song!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs&list=RDGMEMKcfdYVpEGn7ut17qwCZ9pgVM5XcKBmdfpWs) > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Incidentally, [yet another woman just came forward](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3863174/Trump-offered-10k-spend-night-says-porn-star-Adult-actress-claims-Donald-propositioned-inviting-two-women-penthouse-suite.html) to explain how a recently-married Trump kissed her without permission and “repeatedly asked her to spend the night with him and offered her $10,000 to do so despite her rejections.” > > I mention this because, hey, can you imagine what the guys at WikiLeaks must’ve been thinking way back on the morning of October 1st? _“Ha! We have so much dirt on Hillary, this election will hinge on everything we release, whenever – wait, what? But that’s front-page news! Gah. Okay. Well, we’re ready to hit back with – sonofabitch, they have that on tape too? Dammit, our anti-Hillary stuff would be the biggest headlines in the country, if only all this anti-Trump stuff would stop – wait, how many accusers is it up to now? Man, last I checked, it was half that!”_ How bad does your life suck when you offer a porn actress 10k to stay with you, and she says no? Good on jessica drake. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3339 "2016-10-23T19:22:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump’s arc will be shorter, but the white protestant nationalist movement he leaves behind is growing and becoming more dangerous. I agree that his movement (a) has the\* potential\* to be quite dangerous. And no question, it’s the tail wagging the GOP dog from here on out: they can come up with all the autopsy reports they want to this time, but like John Boehner once said, a leader without followers is a man taking a walk. The GOP depends on the votes of the Deplorables. > [@](#): > > Moreover, they are threatening this country’s constitutional legitimacy and institutional stability. America’s decline internationally is also going to potentially plague Hillary Clinton and leave Democrats looking weak. I don’t see this at all, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3340 "2016-10-23T19:34:54Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > _[on ‘getting rid of regulation’:]_ > It’s the kind of shit people come up with when they honestly believe that an inactive government is a good thing, and that any government action is definitionally bad and freedom-limiting. This entire campaign season has really pointed up the failure of our educational system to expose citizens to the basic concepts of civics. If I were in charge, I wouldn’t propose a partisan curriculum; I’d simply propose a curriculum based on one idea: _follow the money_. (On second thought, perhaps that would be considered a partisan curriculum.) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3341 "2016-10-23T19:36:50Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Some washed-up baseball player [held a rally](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/22/1585821/-Former-MLBer-Curt-Schilling-R-MA-throws-Trump-rally-in-Boston-Tens-of-people-show?detail=email&link_id=20&can_id=0d37b803a1d391518f423634bc31261e&source=email-trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory&email_referrer=trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory___123272&email_subject=i-am-one-of-the-faceless-women), which drew fives of people. Perhaps Massachusetts is not the best place to get Rs whipped into a massive frenzy. > > Best part of the story, though, is an angry letter to the guy, which coins the term “Trumpster fire”. Schilling is planning on running against Elizabeth Warren for the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3342 "2016-10-23T19:45:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Schilling is planning on running against Elizabeth Warren for the Senate. And this is probably not just his own idea; one would guess that the GOP leadership would REALLY like to get rid of Warren. That they think Schilling is their best tool for the job says a lot about the GOP brain trust. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3343 "2016-10-23T19:50:14Z")
Early voting in TX tomorrow. Got group of Dems in neighborhood going together. I’m taking my daughter (15yo), too bad she can’t come to the booth with me. Church this morning, did a parking lot survey: 7 HRC, 2 DJT bumper stickers/signs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=166) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=168)