# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 178
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3544 "2016-10-25T17:30:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was mugged (attempted, anyway) once. It was in Honduras – 3 youths attacked me with bottles and stones, but I fought them off and got back home and they ran off. A few days later my room was broken into and my laptop was stolen. It didn’t make me any less liberal. You prevented the forcible redistribution of wealth from the privileged to the downtrodden? That doesn’t sound too liberal to me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3545 "2016-10-25T17:33:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If people caricatured dems in the same manner the triggering on this board would be cataclysmic. The over the top, and dishonest, characterization of a different political point of view is pretty offensive to those who vote a particular way. With a crayon? Their tears are as nectar to me. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3546 "2016-10-25T17:36:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If people caricatured dems in the same manner the triggering on this board would be cataclysmic. The over the top, and dishonest, characterization of a different political point of view is pretty offensive to those who vote a particular way. [QUOTE=octopus] You prevented the forcible redistribution of wealth from the privileged to the downtrodden? That doesn’t sound too liberal to me. [/QUOTE] schizoid much? they have meds for that. :smack:😕:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3547 "2016-10-25T17:45:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If people caricatured dems in the same manner the triggering on this board would be cataclysmic. You mean the way you sometimes do? I’m not seeing any “cataclysm”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3548 "2016-10-25T17:49:06Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > schizoid much? they have meds for that. > > :smack:😕:dubious: Oh no, the dreaded octopus “hypocrisy.”:eek: You do realize that I know what I am writing and that sometimes a gentle, in comparison to how the left wing cabal on this board writes, tease is appropriate to highlight the left wing hypocrisy in decorum that actually is real. About any other group these characterizations of conservatism would be labeled hate-speech in a nanny state country. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3549 "2016-10-25T17:52:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You mean the way you sometimes do? I’m not seeing any “cataclysm”. :dubious: You mean to tell me that if the left or Democrats were non-jokingly called racist, sexist, xenophobic, genocidal, or pedophiles by multiple people in multiple threads throats wouldn’t be cleared? Warnings wouldn’t be issued? Notes wouldn’t be noted? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3550 "2016-10-25T17:53:20Z")
I wonder when this [old video](https://youtu.be/WKTIDGMdANI) (YouTube) of Trump praising Bill and Hillary will show up in a campaign ad? [Transcript](http://pastebin.com/kKf10tZB) > [@](#): > > At a minimum, she [Hillary] will go down as a great senator. She is a great wife to a president, and I think Bill Clinton was a great president. \ So Bill Clinton was a great president, Hillary Clinton is a great woman and a good woman." ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3551 "2016-10-25T17:57:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You mean to tell me that if the left or Democrats were non-jokingly called racist, sexist, xenophobic, genocidal, or pedophiles by multiple people in multiple threads throats wouldn’t be cleared? Warnings wouldn’t be issued? Notes wouldn’t be noted? The Right as a whole have been called these things multiple times in multiple threads? Have you reported this? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3552 "2016-10-25T18:11:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You mean to tell me that if the left or Democrats were non-jokingly called racist, sexist, xenophobic, genocidal, or pedophiles by multiple people in multiple threads throats wouldn’t be cleared? Warnings wouldn’t be issued? Notes wouldn’t be noted? Truth is a defense for libel. That’s why things are as they are. There is no double standard. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3553 "2016-10-25T18:12:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Right as a whole have been called these things multiple times in multiple threads? Have you reported this? Just read through the threads in the elections. And reported it? What for, it’s obviously tolerated, the mods read and participate in these threads. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3554 "2016-10-25T18:12:16Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Some of us haven’t been unlucky, just blessed (or cursed) with empathy. Maybe empathy, maybe a compulsion for seeing how things could have been. I couldn’t have been more than a young teen; maybe the fact I don’t remember it very well is a mercy. I was in the left rear passenger side of a van my family had rented for some reason or another, and we were stopped on the road at night when we lost a good amount of paint and a rear-view mirror to someone who couldn’t afford that crash _or_ his insurance. It was the left side rear-view mirror, of course, which might be why my memory is so hazy, even though I remember older things more clearly. Of course, a bigger example is how I lived smack-dab in Tornado Alley the first fourteen years of my life, and even so I only have two really good stories, neither of them directly tornado-related. My family did drive through a town with a tornado-related story, and we even got out to look around, after being warned very sternly by my dad to not pick through any of the important documents still strewn around the ground. He was quite against looting, after all, and that was before the news had taken to calling it “finding things”, and before he would have believed them if they had. My point is, we can’t make the world fair. We’re not trying to. What we’re trying to do is limit how far a single unfair random event can push an individual or a family, to limit how many generations a family can be kept from success by a single storm hitting their town instead of the town a few miles down, and if that means we limit how long a single random success at business can insulate a family from working, I’m sure you’ll be able to measure my tears with an electron microscope. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3555 "2016-10-25T18:18:40Z")
\*\*octopus \*\*has a legit point. This particular thread has really turned into conservative bashing. Which is excessive. And I have definitely fallen prey to that temptation over the last month or so compared to my long-time posting history. There are, as I have said in various posts in various threads, principled conservatives and principled conservatism. IMO Clinton’s taxonomy of Deplorables contrasted with other sorts of deserving conservatives was pretty close to the mark. The challenge for all of us, both of the left and of the non-Deplorable right, is to develop a mature politics and a mature discourse worthy of 21st Century adults that advances society and human happiness without being hostage to Mankind’s basest natures. Trump as Deplorable-in-Chief is just about the polar opposite of that goal. A full-throated denunciation of him and all he stands for is IMO a good start to any adult conversation about politics going forward. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3556 "2016-10-25T18:20:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s also no real contradiction. Republicans also don’t believe elderly people should be euthanized without their consent, but that does not imply a commitment to care for them. Republicans don’t want people shot in the streets by criminals, but that does not imply a commitment to provide free care for gunshot wounds. > > People have a right to not be murdered. Simple as that. No other promise or commitments need to be implied to justify that point of view. Going back to the basic point that was made earlier, there is absolutely a _ **huge** _ contradiction between professed concern for the fetus from the instant of conception based on the claim that it’s “human life” from that instant, and at the same time pursuing policies that demonstrate wanton disregard for women’s rights, for the basic principles of health care as a human right wherein Republicans opposed Medicaid expansion and child health care funding, and for a child’s right to have decent food and education _ **after** _ it’s born. In detail: > [@](#): > > Republicans also don’t believe elderly people should be euthanized without their consent, Neither does anyone. Although one might note that Republicans’ opposition to the Medicare proposal came pretty damn close to just that. Back in the late 50s and early 60s Saint Reagan (blessed be his name) warned that Medicare (aka “Socialized Medicine”) would be the end of America as we know it, and the dark days of communism would be upon us (see [Operation Coffee Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coffee_Cup), an anti-Medicare campaign he conducted in the early 60s as the poster boy for Republican Values). > [@](#): > > but that does not imply a commitment to care for them. The commitment to care for them comes from the fundamental understanding that human beings have human rights, and that letting people die in the streets is not consistent with that understanding. > [@](#): > > Republicans don’t want people shot in the streets by criminals, I don’t think anyone does. Republicans, however, might want to be less relentlessly obstructionist about gun control. Indeed it’s mainly thanks to Republicans that everyone is guaranteed the right to shoot and get shot, but no one is guaranteed the right to be treated for it. > [@](#): > > but that does not imply a commitment to provide free care for gunshot wounds. See note above about human beings and human rights. > [@](#): > > People have a right to not be murdered. Simple as that. No other promise or commitments need to be implied to justify that point of view. That’s irrelevant to any of the above arguments about Republican hypocrisy. Incidentally, how come Republican states like Texas are such enthusiastic proponents of the death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3557 "2016-10-25T18:37:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > … There are, as I have said in various posts in various threads, principled conservatives and principled conservatism … > > The challenge for all of us, both of the left and of the non-Deplorable right, is to develop a mature politics and a mature discourse worthy of 21st Century adults that advances society and human happiness without being hostage to Mankind’s basest natures. > > Trump as Deplorable-in-Chief is just about the polar opposite of that goal. A full-throated denunciation of him and all he stands for is IMO a good start to any adult conversation about politics going forward. Agreed that there are principled conservatives and principled conservatism. There is, however, in the modern political context, a great difference between conservatism and Republican ideology. The principled Republicans – and they do exist – are the ones who could not bring themselves to support Trump, or denounced him outright. Getting back to Trump, I agree that a full denunciation of him and everything he stands for is a good start to regaining any kind of civilized politics and political discourse. But again, to reflect on modern Republicans and what they apparently stand for, something like 40% of the population supports Trump, and of that number, a good percentage are not just thinking strategically of Supreme Court nominations and the like, but are the hardcore supporters that propelled him to the nomination in the primaries, rejecting a whole roomful of relatively sane candidates. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3558 "2016-10-25T18:44:38Z")
Colin Powell just announced he is voting for Hillary Clinton, according to local reporter covering his remarks to the Long Island Association. > ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3559 "2016-10-25T19:07:50Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > schizoid much? they have meds for that. > > :smack:😕:dubious: Let’s keep the personal cracks out of it, please. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3560 "2016-10-25T19:14:21Z")
[Michelle Bachmann says Hillary wears pants suits because she dresses like Mao Zedong because she’s an economic Marxist.](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/michele-bachmann-clinton-wears-mao-suits-because-shes-an-economic-marxist/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3561 "2016-10-25T19:26:33Z")
Wow. A [very effective ad](https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/790904200863617024) from HRC on Trump’s past housing discrimination, including personal testimony from a black woman who was rejected in her application for an apartment in a Trump building based on her skin color. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3562 "2016-10-25T19:29:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [Michelle Bachmann says Hillary wears pants suits because she dresses like Mao Zedong because she’s an economic Marxist.](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/michele-bachmann-clinton-wears-mao-suits-because-shes-an-economic-marxist/) Michelle Bachmann has no idea what half of those words even mean. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3563 "2016-10-25T19:31:55Z")
An [interesting article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/politics/donald-trump-interviews.html) in today’s NYT about what makes Trump tick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=177) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=179)