# Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [September 30, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277 "2016-09-30T11:21:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 46
### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/903 "2016-10-08T16:42:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I’m definitely not defending the guy, but I think it is a step further than that. Trump is not claiming that he walks up and grabs women by the pussy, just that he could and they would not complain. Much along the lines of “I could shoot a guy in the face and my poll numbers won’t drop.”
>
> He is simply bragging that a man with his star power makes women swoon so much that he could actually grab them and they would not complain. It is a terrible thing to say, but the claims that he is advocating (or has performed) any sexual assaults are a step too far.
He’s so comfortable saying it, though. Too comfortable.
I have to say, I don’t envy Billy Bush. Barbara seems able to strip the skin off you with her eyes alone. Hopefully he’s getting verbally beat down for his comments.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/904 "2016-10-08T16:45:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Firstly, we’re talking about what guys “trash talk” about, not about what they actually do. Secondly, there isn’t anything in the video/audio that is “sexual assault”. He claims:
>
> \*Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything.
>
> Bush: Whatever you want.
>
> Trump: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.\*
>
> They let you do it. There isn’t anything in there that says something along the lines of “she tried to get away, but I grabbed her anyway”. Now, you might question whether they really “let” him do it, but that is what he is claiming.
>
> If I’m missing something, please quote the part where there is a clear act of sexual assault. [Here is the transcript.](https://mic.com/articles/156222/donald-trump-billy-bush-leaked-video-full-transcript-read-the-full-sexist-exchange-here#.rXIdi7gPk)
Kissing them, grabbing the pussy. From where do you get the notion that not kicking him in the nuts = ‘letting him do it’?
Seriously, you are defending the indefensible here.
---
### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/905 "2016-10-08T16:45:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> It could be, but it doesn’t have to be.
>
> Who are you talking about and did she report the alleged crime?
Jill Harth.
> **[Woman Alleges Trump Groped Her Exactly as Said on Tape](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-words-echo-womans-allegations-507763)**
>
> Jill Harth alleges "relentless" sexual harassment and assault by Trump, who was caught on tape boasting he "can do anything" to women.
And if some guy grabs me by the pussy, without waiting [for consent], I’m going to feel assaulted and violated, even if I don’t react “the right way” for a victim. Maybe I’d freeze up, maybe I’d slap him, who knows?
“She let me do it” isn’t that far off from “she didn’t fight me off hard enough”.
---
### Author:  [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/906 "2016-10-08T16:45:26Z")
Reasonable to say the video makes it easy to imagine Trump committing a crime, if you really dislike him. Ridiculous to say the video is evidence of a crime. The posts trying to twist it into that immediately demonstrate it. ‘Say Trump did X under Y circumstance to some woman…’. Hypothetical.
The video makes Trump out a creep. Be glad it came out if you don’t want him elected, since it’s not going to help him, except in the unlikely case the Clinton team goes similarly overboard and starts talking about the video as evidence of some hypothetical crime.
And the other real way it could hurt him is _if_ there was actually some crime (before or after) where release of this video shakes loose credible evidence or witnesses.
---
### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/907 "2016-10-08T16:46:22Z")
This is one reason early voting sucks. I wonder how many people voted for Trump and want their vote back now?
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/908 "2016-10-08T16:47:29Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> _I don’t even wait_ and _I just start kissing them_. The fact that he interprets someone’s possibly shocked non-response to them letting him do it is neither here nor there. Heck the possibility that some career-minded young lady might tolerate it to get closer to wealth and power is really neither here nor there either. You march up to someone and start groping and kissing them without explanation you’re wandering into assault territory.
Look. If you’re asking me if I think Trump has ever sexually assaulted a woman, I’d say “yeah, probably”. For men of his generation, in his position of power… it would be odd if they didn’t, at some time, behave in that manner.
But am I going to convict him on his little bragging routine with Billy Bush? No. It really is the kind of locker room talk you hear all the time among guys. It could be true, it might not be true. And Trump is not exactly known for telling the truth, is he?
Let the women step forward, as they did with Bill Cosby, and tell the world what happened. Then we can all judge one way or another. It looks like that might be starting to happen, per the link provided by **monstro**. But it would be much better, more credible, if the claim were made by someone not afraid of identifying herself.
---
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/909 "2016-10-08T16:47:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> It could be, but it doesn’t have to be.
>
> Who are you talking about and did she report the alleged crime?
One victim’s lawyer was on MSNBC. Her husband had been cheated by Trump, then she was assaulted. She filed a case against him, and he immediately settled with the husband so she withdrew it.
As for the police - some random woman against Trump? That would go well.
Trumps word could be considered as just bragging if we didn’t have lots of cases of him trying to grab women by the pussy. And more will be arriving any day now.
ETA: Ninjaed. My example was indeed Jill Harth.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/910 "2016-10-08T16:47:49Z")
> [@Bayard](#):
>
> At last count, three Republican senators (Sasse, Lee, and Crapo) have called for Trump to step down. Assorted other lawmakers have as well. The chairman of the Ohio Republican Party has assured members they won’t face punishment if they abandon Trump.
>
> [http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/10/08/us/politics/ap-us-campaign-2016-the-latest.html?referer=https://www.google.com/](http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/10/08/us/politics/ap-us-campaign-2016-the-latest.html?referer=https://www.google.com/)
As you said, that link mentions a number of Representatives who’ve done likewise. Still, one it doesn’t yet mention is Brigadier-General-turned-Congressman Joe Heck, who is running for a Senate seat and apparently just called on Trump to step down.
---
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/911 "2016-10-08T16:50:53Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#):
>
> Reasonable to say the video makes it easy to imagine Trump committing a crime, if you really dislike him. Ridiculous to say the video is evidence of a crime. The posts trying to twist it into that immediately demonstrate it. ‘Say Trump did X under Y circumstance to some woman…’. Hypothetical.
He did not do anything to the woman mentioned in the video - but his words make the stories of women who claimed he assaulted them a lot more believable.
---
### Author:  [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/912 "2016-10-08T16:51:42Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#):
>
> And the other real way it could hurt him is _if_ there was actually some crime (before or after) where release of this video shakes loose credible evidence or witnesses.
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/opinion/sunday/donald-trump-groper-in-chief.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/opinion/sunday/donald-trump-groper-in-chief.html)
Groping and kissing (sexual assault) was standard operating procedure for Trump.
---
### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/913 "2016-10-08T16:52:09Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#):
>
> Trump is Too Legit to Quit:
>
> [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-growing-calls-to-drop-out-trump-vows-to-never-withdraw/2016/10/08/8c0b5b7a-8d68-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-growing-calls-to-drop-out-trump-vows-to-never-withdraw/2016/10/08/8c0b5b7a-8d68-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html)
>
> “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” Trump told the Washington Post in a phone call from his home in Trump Tower in New York. “No, I’m not quitting this race. I have tremendous support.”
As proof, he held up recent letters of support from Bill Cosby, Brock Turner, and Brandon Vandenburg. Other letters of support are expected to arrive once they are released from the prison mailrooms.
---
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/914 "2016-10-08T16:55:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> Yes. This string of bad news about Trump (Foundation, Cuba, Machado, Pussygate) looks like a campaign finally releasing the hounds. There may be more to come, however it may not be the Clinton campaign that does the releasing as the reporters now fully know where to look.
I’d suspect a lot of the press knows a lot more dirt about candidates than they publish. They may not print stories they believe in which don’t have enough evidence, but they may know they are true. Besides Clinton timing the releases, the press might be doing it themselves. But a lot of this stuff just showed up in reporters mailboxes, so that might be the DNC.
As for me, I think they should paint out Trump’s name on his plane and write “Dead Meat” instead.
---
### Author:  [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/915 "2016-10-08T16:55:17Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> At this point, the only people who will vote for him are the deplorables. There’s no chance he’ll win. A vote for Trump isn’t a vote for President–it’s a vote in support of the person Trump his revealed himself to be.
Just saw on Bill Maher that there is a meme going around on the right that this is the “Flight 93” election, the idea being that things have gotten so bad under Obama, it is time to rush the cockpit of the nation. If you don’t at least try, death is certain.
---
### Author:  [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/916 "2016-10-08T16:55:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I’m definitely not defending the guy, [snip]
You can keep telling yourself that, but that’s exactly what you’re doing.
---
### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/917 "2016-10-08T16:56:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Back up a step. Why was Access Hollywood, an entertainment show, trawling through its archives of out-takes from 11 years ago?
>
> People have long memories of creeps being creeps, and of rich frat-boys like Billy Bush fawning on rich creeps.
Sure, I have no idea what prompted Access Hollywood to be going through its archives now. But the act of searching through their archives for hot mic B-roll is not anything surprising - they own and store that footage.
The assumption that the Clinton campaign obtained the video from these privately-owned archives seems less plausible. How did they get it? It isn’t like someone can flash a campaign operative badge and march around LA, going through production company footage.
I heard some talking heads wondering aloud what sort of stuff Mark Burnett, producer of The Apprentice, must have in his archives.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/918 "2016-10-08T16:56:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Look. If you’re asking me if I think Trump has ever sexually assaulted a woman, I’d say “yeah, probably”. For men of his generation, in his position of power… it would be odd if they didn’t, at some time, behave in that manner.
Holy shit.
---
### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/919 "2016-10-08T17:00:32Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#):
>
> Reasonable to say the video makes it easy to imagine Trump committing a crime, if you really dislike him. Ridiculous to say the video is evidence of a crime.
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> But am I going to convict him on his little bragging routine with Billy Bush? No.
Oh, don’t get me wrong - I absolutely agree with the above. My objection is not “he admitted to committing sexual assault”, but rather “he is boasting about committing what would functionally be sexual assault.” Now if he had actually said he walked up to Nancy O’Dell and specifically groped/kissed her without a by-your-leave, THEN I’d accuse him directly.
Do I think he sexually harassed people? Yeah, absolutely. He’s just that type of vile narcissist. Do I think he could get convicted on these schoolyard boasts on _this_ tape? No.
But it would sure be a nice bit of character evidence at a trial.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/920 "2016-10-08T17:02:44Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Oh, don’t get me wrong - I absolutely agree with the above. My objection is not “he admitted to committing sexual assault”, but rather “he is boasting about committing what would functionally be sexual assault.” Now if he had actually said he walked up to Nancy O’Dell and specifically groped/kissed her without a by-your-leave, THEN I’d accuse him directly.
>
> Do I think he sexually harassed people? Yeah, absolutely. He’s just that type of vile narcissist. Do I think he could get convicted on these schoolyard boasts? No.
This much I agree with: there’s nothing in these tapes to spearhead a conviction, any more than there would be if he described going to poor neighborhoods and shooting homeless people in the head. The fact that he bragged about committing a crime in general doesn’t mean he can be convicted of a crime in general; that’s not how our system works.
But just because there’s no specific crime to prosecute doesn’t mean we must pretend he’s describing legal behavior.
---
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/921 "2016-10-08T17:08:08Z")
[Pence is refusing to defend Trump.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/08/donald-trump-tape-quit-republicans-lewd-comments)
> [@](#):
>
> The businessman’s own vice-presidential pick, Mike Pence, on Saturday decried “the words and actions described by Donald Trump” in the video.
>
> “I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them. I am grateful that he has expressed remorse,” he added, before alluding to Sunday night’s presidential debate. “We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night.”
I’ll bet Trump will show what’s in his heart.
---
### Author:  [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/922 "2016-10-08T17:10:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Not that difficult.
> [Top Evangelicals Stand By Trump Despite His Vulgar Comments About Sleeping With Married Woman](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/evangelicals-trump_us_57f83051e4b068ecb5de95fb)
While Reed and Perkins are undoubtedly two of the most visible Evangelicals in the media they are really little more than lobbyists. Someone like [Russell Moor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_D._Moore)e, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention would be a person positioned to have greater influence on the Evangelical rank and file. If you [check out his Twitter feed](https://twitter.com/drmoore) it’s pretty clear he isn’t standing with Trump. There appear to be a substantial number of Southern Baptists listening to what Moore is saying who don’t intend to vote for the GOP candidate. I’m not saying they will vote Hillary but if they withhold their votes from Trump it isn’t really necessary.
And this is a quote from the article you linked that makes it clear Reed and Perkins don’t speak for all Evangelicals, as much as they might like to think they do.
> [@](#):
>
> Earlier Friday, more than 100 evangelical leaders posted a letter to [Change.org](http://Change.org) urging fellow Christians to vote against Trump, arguing he “has fueled white American nationalism with xenophobic appeals and religious intolerance at the expense of gospel values, democratic principles, and important international relationships."
>
> "Sometimes historic moments arise when more is at stake than partisan politics ― when the meaning and integrity of our faith hangs in the balance,” reads the letter. “This is one of those moments.”
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=45)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277.md?page=47)