# Clive Barker and the Damnation Game \[spoilers of course\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 4, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288 "2003-07-04T20:46:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Kivick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kivick)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/1 "2003-07-04T20:46:39Z")
Just finished reading this book last night. Ive seen some of his movies and they just come off as a gorefest. Not to sound too cliche but the Damnation Game had so much depth… lets discuss it with a few opening questions by me, feel free to hijack:
1. Is this book typical of his work? The theme purveys a discust for fleshly things by destroying it in sadistic ways. But below the surface I sense some form of ignorant spirituality, Clive pierces the flesh and writes about pain and sufferning but you can almost feel he is working out some sort of notion of God and His higher power by questioning the disgusting things we to do each other as humans.
2. If this book is typical for his work and you see this same theme in them can you reccomend them to me?
3. Ive been to his website: [http://www.clivebarker.com](http://www.clivebarker.com) It would also seem that not only is Clive a writer but also an artist. Anybody seen his artwork? Mostly grotesque but it has impressionistic qualities.
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### Author:  [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/2 "2003-07-04T21:15:24Z")
Have you not seen any of his movies?
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### Author:  [@Kivick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kivick)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/3 "2003-07-04T21:17:43Z")
Aye, Hellraiser, Lord of Illussions, etc.
The point being, compared to the book (cliche) the movies come off as gorefests…
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### Author:  [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/4 "2003-07-04T21:24:38Z")
You should look up the computer game _Undying_. It was a very odd game in that it was hailed by all of the critics as one of the fines FPS since Half-Life, was loved by all that played it (Including myslef, mostly) yet sold horibl. You should be able to find it for cheap at most software stores.
[Here](http://www.3dactionplanet.com/undying/) is a popular fan-site dedicated to it.
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### Author:  [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/5 "2003-07-04T21:34:08Z")
What a coincidence, I just picked up _Undying_. Only played it a bit, but it’s damned intriguing. I like the way it integrates traditional weapons with spell casting.
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### Author:  [@Mr\_Tambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Tambo)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/6 "2003-07-04T21:40:49Z")
I read it quite a while ago and wasn’t, I must admit, as impressed as you seem to be. Clive Barker strikes me as one of those authors who think ‘horror’ is piling up the blood and guts and gore and orful-looking monsters, when it should really be much more about tension and suspense. Also, something about his writing style really grates on me; it strikes me as often far too verbose and even pompous.
Which is not to say the book didn’t have its moments, or that Clive Barker isn’t a good author, if not quite my cup of tea.
Your point about a basic disgust with the flesh is well-made. It’s the same sort of thing with the films of David Cronenberg; you get the impression these men have a sort of horrified fascination with all the lumps and bumps and spots and scabs and scars and worms and growths of the human body.
In Barker’s case, this could be simply sheer disgust at having to inhabit a leaky, fleshy bag of various unpleasant liquids, or maybe, as you suggest, some form of religious/spiritual ascetic drive. ‘The Damnation Game’ itself, IIRC, despite its title only really touches upon religion by way of the two American evangelists whom the gambler uses in the last part of the book. It doesn’t show them, and by extension their religion, in a very positive light; they’re repressed, gullible and easily deluded into psychopathic acts.
I’ve only read one other Clive Barker novel; ‘Weaveworld’, which a lot of people consider their favorites (my reaction to it, much like that to ‘The Damnation Game’, was a resounding ‘Eh’). It’s not exactly horror, but still has plenty of horror elements and is, yes, much like ‘The Damnation Game’ in theme only more so. I suspect you’d enjoy it, despite not liking it all that much myself (God, that sounds snooty. That is to say: I’m not a Barker fan but if I were, I would like ‘Weaveworld’).
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### Author:  [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/7 "2003-07-04T21:47:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Max Torque \*
> \*\*What a coincidence, I just picked up _Undying_. Only played it a bit, but it’s damned intriguing. I like the way it integrates traditional weapons with spell casting. \*\*
How far are you? Did you find the hidden shooting gallery?
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### Author:  [@Kivick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kivick)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/8 "2003-07-04T23:15:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mr Tambo \*
> \*\*
> Your point about a basic disgust with the flesh is well-made. It’s the same sort of thing with the films of David Cronenberg; you get the impression these men have a sort of horrified fascination with all the lumps and bumps and spots and scabs and scars and worms and growths of the human body. \*\*
Thanks Mr Tambo for the reference, Ill have to check out Weaveworld to be certain it was the writing I liked and not the state of mind Ive been in lately. Although maybe you are on to something here… I remember being very young and looking at a sore on my knee I got from a nasty fall, and simply being fascinated by it. (Will avoid descriptions / TMI…) It is one of my earliest memories of my mortality that I can recall.
Muad’dib Iam not much a fan of FPS’s I like strategy etc. Must be the war pig in me, but I do recall coming close to purchasing Undying… Ill give it another look-see.
Anyone else who has read The Damnation Game and is familiar with the metal band Tool picture how perfectly the song Aenima would go with the chapter “The Deluge”?
Hmm David Cronenberg. Iam off to IMDB
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### Author:  [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/9 "2003-07-05T00:04:25Z")
I’ve read a few of his books, he’s one of my favorite horror authors. His short stories are also great.
What was the name of that novel that had a sorceror who created snake-like creatures by ejaculating onto his turds? That’s an image that just sticks with you. The whole creation of life via combining sperm with feces has more layers of meaning now that I’ve found out he’s gay. It probably also explains why most of his female characters are unappealing - even the ones who are supposedly very seductive don’t come off that way with me.
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### Author:  [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/10 "2003-07-05T01:00:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \*
> What was the name of that novel that had a sorceror who created snake-like creatures by ejaculating onto his turds?
_The Great and Secret Show_.
FWIW, I dispute the idea that Barker’s horror is nothing more than a gorefest. There’s a lot of sado-masochistic, psycho-sexual subtext to a many of his works, especially his earlier stuff. _The Damnation Game_, _Hellraiser_, _The Books of Blood_ are all well worth reading. Unfortunately, his later forays into fantasy have left me cold, although I thought _Cold Heart Canyon_ was decent enough.
I’ve never compared Cronenberg with Barker before, but I can definitely see some similarities. I think I might have to pull out _Hellraiser_ and _Videodrome_ sometime this weekend.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clive-barker-and-the-damnation-game-spoilers-of-course/186288/11 "2003-07-05T02:37:33Z")
**Damnation Game** is pretty typical, if I recall. It wasn’t terribly memorable, beyond the poor dogs and something about a tree, but I don’t remember thinking that there was anything atypical about it in regards to his usual stories.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hodge \*
> \*\*_The Great and Secret Show_.
>
> FWIW, I dispute the idea that Barker’s horror is nothing more than a gorefest. There’s a lot of sado-masochistic, psycho-sexual subtext to a many of his works, especially his earlier stuff. _The Damnation Game_, _Hellraiser_, _The Books of Blood_ are all well worth reading. Unfortunately, his later forays into fantasy have left me cold, although I thought _Cold Heart Canyon_ was decent enough.
You can’t be a Clive Barker fan. 😃 **Coldheart Canyon** is considered by many (including me) to be the worst of the lot. Ghosts having sex with animals, and so forth…that’s even more twisted than usual for him, even compared to Weaveworld. However, I never even finished The Books of Blood because they were so gory and strange.
I think I liked **Sacrament** , **The Thief of Always** and \*\* Galilee\*\* best. Although I’ve liked nearly all of his others. Nearly.