# Clock at the end of the Fiesta Bowl
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 3, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436 "2004-01-03T05:34:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/1 "2004-01-03T05:34:17Z")
I have a question about the way the clock ran during OSU’s last possession of the Fiesta Bowl tonight. K State scored their last touchdown with 2:47 left in the 4th quarter, then tried an onside kick, but OSU recovered, so OSU has the ball with 2:47 left, and KSU has 1 timeout left. Then:
1st down, OSU runs a running play for no gain. They let the clock run to 2:00, and they get a penalty at that point (illegal procedure or delay of game, not sure which). Then they line up for 2nd down and the clock starts running again. Why? There was over a minute run off the clock between 1st and 2nd down.
I’m pretty sure I’m remembering this correctly, since that’s the only place so much time could have come off the clock. After 2nd down KSU called their timeout, and after 3rd down OSU ran out of bounds. Then OSU kicked with 1:20 left.
If I have the events right, then is that time coming off the clock correct? The announcers didn’t mention anything, even though they were talking about clock management for the whole 4th quarter.
---
### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/2 "2004-01-03T05:38:07Z")
On the second down play, OSU was flagged for illegal procedure. In that situation, you stop the clock to mark off the penalty, then you mark the ball ready for play and the clock goes back to the status before the penalty. Since it was already running when OSU made the illegal procedure, it still runs.
---
### Author:  [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/3 "2004-01-03T06:05:27Z")
Ok thanks, I wasn’t sure if the penalty stops the clock. It still seems like too much time ran off, but I must just be miscounting something. [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) play by play says OSU got the ball with 2:47 left, and KS called timeout after 2nd down with 1:26 left. That’s 1:21 to run first down, let the play clock run, and run second down. Anyway, thanks for the info.
---
### Author:  [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/4 "2004-01-03T06:11:35Z")
isn’t the play clock 25 seconds though?
it seemed like after the penalty, the officials restarted the play clock, allowing another 25 seconds to run off.
---
### Author:  [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/5 "2004-01-03T11:06:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _ **BobT** wrote:_
> In that situation, you stop the clock to mark off the penalty, then you mark the ball ready for play and the clock goes back to the status before the penalty. Since it was already running when OSU made the illegal procedure, it still runs.
I can’t provide a definitive answer, but that doesn’t sound right. I thought that after a penalty, the game clock isn’t restarted til the snap.
If this were not the case, OSU could have simply kept getting called on illegal procedure, getting the play clock restarted each time, and letting the game clock run out. Haven’t seen that tactic before, which makes me question whether it is available.
---
### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/6 "2004-01-03T16:28:36Z")
The referee has the discretion of stopping the clock if he felt that OSU was deliberately taking penalties to keep the clock moving.
---
### Author:  [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/7 "2004-01-03T18:41:19Z")
Like I said, I’m no expert, but that still doesn’t sound right.
Let me call your attention to the official NCAA rules of football (found [here](http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2003/2003_football_rules.pdf), in pdf). Rule 3.2.5.a seems to be controlling, and the line referencing Referee Discretion also points to rule 3.4.3, which sounds applicable to me. That rule says:
> [@](#):
>
> Unfair Game-Clock Tactics
> ARTICLE 3. The referee shall order the game clock started or stopped whenever either team conserves or consumes playing time by tactics obviously unfair. This includes starting the clock on the snap if the foul is by the team ahead in the score. The clock will start on the ready-for-play signal after an illegal forward or backward pass that conserves time for Team A(A.R. 3-4-3-I-IV).
Sounds to me like the refs should have only restarted the clock when the ball was snapped.
---
### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/8 "2004-01-03T19:05:30Z")
I think we’re in agreement. It’s in the referee’s discretion. To me, the play didn’t look like OSU was deliberately jumping early. It was more in OSU’s interest to keep the clock moving and get a first down anyway.
And college players don’t have enough sense to figure out such tactics.
---
### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/9 "2004-01-03T19:41:35Z")
So, let’s try to reconstruct that sequence of plays.
OSU takes over with 2:47 left
1-10 at KSU 36 Joe rushes for no gain. Let’s say the play takes 5 seconds to run and the ball is spotted ready for play again at the 2:35 mark
2-10 at KSU 36 5 yard penalty on OSU
The clock stops once the officials throw their flags. Presumably OSU jumped after about 20 or so seconds had run off the play clock. That would have brought the game clock down to about 2:15.
The clock starts up again at 2:15
2-15 at KSU 41 Joe rushes for -1.
Presumably OSU would have run close to 25 seconds off the clock and the clock would be reading 1:50 or so.
KSU calls timeout at 1:26
So, there’s about 24 seconds unaccounted for. This would lead me to believe that at some point the officials were slow in marking the ball ready for play. Or it’s possible that K State made a big pileup during the first tackle.
---
### Author:  [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-at-the-end-of-the-fiesta-bowl/222436/10 "2004-01-03T19:53:57Z")
I still believe the 25 second clock had run down to almost nothing, the false start occurred, and then the play clock was reset, allowing another 25 seconds to tick off before the play actually occurred