# Clock Numeral IIII **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145 "2002-05-21T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dotandruss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dotandruss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotandruss)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/1 "2002-05-21T18:48:38Z")
Why do clocks with roman numerals all have IIII instead of IV? ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/2 "2002-05-21T18:51:13Z")
Is there anything the master doesn’t know? [Link](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_153.html) ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/3 "2002-05-21T18:53:00Z")
Oh yeah, welcome to the boards dot and/or russ! ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/4 "2002-05-21T19:37:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there anything the master doesn’t know? In this case, I’d say yes. The linked column is hardly conclusive. I heard somewhere that they use IIII because some king had trouble remembering the difference between IV and VI, but I’m sure that info is of the quality of non-echoing duck quacks. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/5 "2002-05-21T19:45:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there anything the master doesn’t know? Well, evidently, he doesn’t know why clocks use IIII instead of IV. 😃 I like the explanation of the one dude who wrote in, regarding the ease of making sets of characters with IIII instead of IV. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/6 "2002-05-21T22:57:21Z")
I’d _never_ noticed the IIII thing before, strange. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/7 "2002-05-22T20:57:46Z")
I once read that there is no real standard for Roman numerals. If, for example, you wanted to write MIM instead of MCMLXLIX for 1999, feel free to do so. In fact, it is unclear why it is standard to write IX instead of VIV. So if you want to write IIII go ahead. BTW, I once met of professor of mathematics who apparently thought that IV was 6. Civilization make a great advance when Roman numberals were replaced by Hindu-Arabic numerals, in the face of enormous resistance and I cannot imagine why we still use them. Addition and subtraction required advanced study and multiplication and division were essentially impossible. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/8 "2002-05-22T21:34:17Z")
IV is the new reperesntation for the number 4 in Roman n numberials. It was changed from IIII in 1965AD. Since they stopped teaching latin you most likely couldn’t read the memo. ---
**Author:** ![dotandruss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dotandruss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotandruss)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clock-numeral-iiii/110145/9 "2002-05-23T01:51:55Z")
Thank you all so much. What a great web site.