# Clone Wars is oh so bad **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [November 17, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805 "2020-11-17T15:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/1 "2020-11-17T15:33:53Z")
Because of recent events on The Mandalorian (no spoilers) I decided to watch Clone Wars. I’m about 6 episodes in and it is horrible. It is so formulaic: Anakin disobeys orders for some personal mission Refuses to train his padawan Ashoka, instead shutting her down each time with, “STFU, human man talking here.” He wins his battle, not by skill or good planning or listening to others’ advice but because General Grievous and the droid army are so incompetent. He gets back and everyone acts like he has once again single-handedly saved the Republic. As I’m moving on in the episodes, at least some clones are dying. The way some troopers are out in the open when the droid army attacks it should be more like the shower scene in The Rock. And I’m still waiting to see how Anakin lost his “Jedi Master” status between Clone Wars and Episode 3. Anakin is such a bad teacher/manager I’m surprised Ashoka doesn’t post walls of text on our Workplace Rants thread. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/2 "2020-11-17T17:23:32Z")
I kind of agree. I tried watching the Clone Wars when we first got Disney+ and quickly got bored and wandered off the first season doesn’t really tell a story it is just a bunch of vignettes. Over the last couple of months I started up again and this time made it to season two. They start doing more arches and call backs and while its still fairly predictable that they do 3 or 4 episode mini stories it held my attention better. The stuff with Mandalore doesn’t really start until season three or four but it geet more and more interesting over time. Yes, Anakin is a whiny bitch the whole time and they set him up well to be an emo murder in Revenge of the Sith. Ashoka has a very interesting arch starting as the ignored padawan and moving into a pivotal role by the end. We then went on an watched Rebels which wasn’t as a good and Resistance which was fairly terrible and by comparison made clone wars much more interesting. It was fun seeing the tie ins to the greater universe that was created in Clone Wars and Rebels. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/3 "2020-11-17T17:28:16Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And I’m still waiting to see how Anakin lost his “Jedi Master” status between Clone Wars and Episode 3. He was never a Master. Master is a specific rank, but not being a Master doesn’t preclude having an apprentice. Apparently padawans were frequently (probably most often) assigned to standard Jedi Knights like Anakin and the apprentice would refer to their mentor as “master” as a gesture of respect. But master and Master are in this context, and admittedly confusingly, two different things 😉. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/4 "2020-11-17T17:51:09Z")
I was confused for a moment, because my first thought when you said ‘Clone Wars’ was > **[Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003 TV series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Clone_Wars_(2003_TV_series))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > Star Wars: Clone Wars is an American animated television series set in the Star Wars universe, developed by Genndy Tartakovsky for Cartoon Network. Set between the Star Wars prequel trilogy films Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, it is amongst the first of many works to explore the conflict known as the Clone Wars. The show follows the actions of various prequel trilogy characters, notably Jedi and clone troopers, in their war again... Which was freaking amazing, if often over the top. Sadly, once Star Wars was absorbed by the Disney Borg, it was declared non-canonical, despite the fact that it was the ‘official’ bridge between II and III at the time. And yes, it did feel like Samurai Jack redone in the Star Wars universe. Apparently, the 2008 series adapted (dare I say assimilated? 🙂 ) quite a lot of the 2003 series materials, but I never had a chance to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/5 "2020-11-17T18:41:06Z")
Hmm. I was considering watching this as well. I’ve been watching The Mandalorian, and Bo Katan was no one I recognized. Then I started seeing everyone going fanboy bananas over the character showing up. Hopefully, I won’t need to go back and watch years of YA animated content in order to grasp what Din Djarin is getting himself into. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/6 "2020-11-17T19:08:54Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Which was freaking amazing, if often over the top. One of the greatest pieces of Star Wars media ever created. [Working link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Clone_Wars_(2003_TV_series)) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/7 "2020-11-17T19:11:49Z")
Man, I wholeheartedly disagree with Clone Wars hate here. I absolutely loved the series, and to me, it made Anakin _not_ come across as a whiny bitch. It made him a more sympathetic character, and it made his fall (as well as the clones’ betrayal) that much more tragic. And it gave us one of my favorite SW characters: Ahsoka. The Clone Wars (2008 series) _redeemed_ the prequel era, imo. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/8 "2020-11-17T19:54:36Z")
I’m with you. There were some episodes I didn’t care for, but overall I thought the series was pretty good. I liked the pirate Honda and bounty hunter Cad Bane. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/9 "2020-11-17T20:09:25Z")
I think the series gets significantly better over time. I also divide into three episode types. 1. The Clone Trooper Episodes. There is the unfortunate future-infantry-fighting-in-Napoleonic-squares tactics, but beyond that, those episodes are _really_ good. The plotting and dialogue and characterization are all first rate. 2. The Jedi Episodes. These are distinctly hit-or-miss for me. Some of them are good, some of them aren’t. I agree with @Happy_Lendervedder, though. The series does a really good job of making Anakin into a sympathetic but flawed character. Ahsoka Tahno also grows from odious kid side-kick to a really well-realized character. Their relationship gets a _lot_ more well-developed and interesting later in the series. 3. The Droid Episodes. These are just unwatchably bad. I eventually stopped even trying - as soon as I realized it was a Droid Episode, I’d turn it off. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/10 "2020-11-17T20:10:25Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > The Droid Episodes. These are just unwatchably bad. I eventually stopped even trying - as soon as I realized it was a Droid Episode, I’d turn it off. I agree with this hate. Absolutely terrible. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/11 "2020-11-17T20:29:33Z")
> [@Retzbu\_Tox](#): > > Hmm. I was considering watching this as well. I’ve been watching The Mandalorian, and Bo Katan was no one I recognized. Then I started seeing everyone going fanboy bananas over the character showing up. Hopefully, I won’t need to go back and watch years of YA animated content in order to grasp what Din Djarin is getting himself into. Bo-Katan was an important character in the episodes in which she appeared, but she only appeared in a handful of episodes. Her appearance is a cool Easter Egg for fans of _Clone Wars_ and _Rebels_, and I think those series were worthwhile in and of themselves, but I definitely wouldn’t watch them just to get the full reference. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/12 "2020-11-17T20:55:13Z")
And really, it’s easy enough to Google the Mandalorian episodes of CW, and only watch those. You can actually plunk yourself into any episode (or arc) of CW and not be lost. While they do build on each other, the arcs are decent stand-alones as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/13 "2020-11-17T21:16:50Z")
It improves a lot as it goes. Anakin is actually a hero to me, now, not just that guy we briefly met in the movies who was not a hero much at all. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/14 "2020-11-17T22:00:38Z")
My grandson loved _Clone Wars_ and still thinks it’s the greatest thing Star Wars ever did. He was about 9 or 10 when it started, and it just caught him up in it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/15 "2020-11-17T22:22:07Z")
The CG quality also improves. The early seasons look more like _Ratatoing_ than _Ratatouille_. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/16 "2020-11-17T23:07:38Z")
Watched it in real time when it originally aired on Cartoon Network. I agree the movie and first few seasons are weak and vary wildly in quality. (Seriously, multiple Jar-Jar episodes? WTF were they thinking?). The jumbled chronology in the first 3 seasons didn’t help much either. . But by the fourth season it is much better. The storytelling becomes more linear, Anakin has become more complex, Ahsoka has matured into a strong character, the themes get darker. More shades of grey, more “huh, the Jedi were actually kinda dicks”. The return of Maul, while contrived, sets up a very interesting recurring storyline. The sixth season arc where a clone uncovers Order 66 and Palpatine’s involvement, only to have the Jedi not believe him, is incredibly tense (especially since we already know it can’t turn out well for him without introducing a major plot hole) and heartbreaking. Rebels had a really hit-and-miss first season as well. Too reliant on fan service (A R2/3PO episode! A Leia episode! 2 Lando episodes!) and a little too kid-friendly. But the show gets more sure of itself in the next season and Seasons 2 through 4 are excellent. My son, who was 6 when Clone Wars premiered and 12 when Rebels came along, still thinks _Rebels_ is the best incarnation of Star Wars outside of the original trilogy (although The Mandolorian is growing on him) Resistance…um, yeah… not so good. Not bad as in Jar-Jar bad, rather just dull and mostly predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/17 "2020-11-18T05:49:16Z")
I tried both Clone Wars and Rebels, but really didn’t felt engaged with either; maybe I should try some of the later episodes to see if they’re more to my tastes. I would be interested in the Mandalorean/Darksaber stuff, and the Maul storyline, is there some guide to which episodes I’d need to watch to grasp what’s going on there? Also, some of the essential Ahsoka bits, perhaps… Also, a while back, I came across [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sOvNYYH6Cs) of Inquisitors using their lightsabers for helicopter flight. That’s when I sorta decided I wouldn’t bother with animated Star Wars anymore. Is that something that happens a lot…? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/18 "2020-11-18T16:15:38Z")
It gets a lot better. It always has some filler episodes that feel like they are for a much younger audience than the rest of the show, but when it’s good it’s as good as Star Wars gets. The last four episodes are up there with the Mandalorian as the best Star Wars made since the Disney take over. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/19 "2020-11-18T16:40:59Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > Watched it in real time when it originally aired on Cartoon Network. I agree the movie and first few seasons are weak and vary wildly in quality. (Seriously, multiple Jar-Jar episodes? WTF were they thinking?). When they were first coming out, a friend tried to sell me on the series, saying it was way better than the prequels, which had pretty much killed my interest in Star Wars at the time. After much cajoling, he convinced me to sit down and watch the next episode. Which was “Jar-Jar the Jedi.” I still don’t let my friend live that one down, even though I eventually came around on the series, a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805/20 "2020-11-18T17:14:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Jar-Jar the Jedi.” I prefer the Darth Jar-Jar theory. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clone-wars-is-oh-so-bad/925805.md?page=2)