# Clones, Rael and Genesis (the band) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805 "2002-12-31T02:40:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/1 "2002-12-31T02:40:27Z")
Ever since I first heard of Rael-- the leader of the Raelians-- a couple years ago, I have often wondered what the connection is, if any, between him and the fictional ‘Rael’ character featured on the Genesis double-album “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.” The name of this album is interesting in light of recent claims by the Raelians that they have cloned a baby human that they are now bringing home to the United States. “The Lamb” could by construed as meaning “clone” if you consider that the first well-known cloned mammal was Dolly the sheep. “Lies Down On Broadway” could indicate New York City or perhaps somewhere else in America. (In other words “the cloned child comes home to New York” [or the USA]) Of course the album (started in 1973) came long before the alleged cloned human, but I think the Raelians have been planning to make a clone for some time. And interestingly, the Raelian movement also was founded in 1973. Where did Rael of the Raelians get his name? From a Genesis album? What does Rael mean anyway? Is it a derivitaive of Israel? Finally, (and I hold back giggling as I write this) did “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway” portend cloning attempts by the Raelians?? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/2 "2002-12-31T02:48:57Z")
[This page](http://www.sarahsarchangels.com/angelofday/R.html) says > [@](#): > > Rael - A Wednesday angel residing in the third heaven. He is also one of the intelligence’s of the planet Venus. Invocant must face North when conjuring up Rael. Of course that’s not much of an explanation. Angel names are typically ended with “el”, a suffix sometimes given the meaning of “shining ones” and origin of the worl elf, which is why, I think, Tolkien describes the “high elves” in his books as shimmering with light. But the name Rael in particular is not mentioned in the Bible AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/3 "2002-12-31T03:58:55Z")
I’m just talking out of my nether parts here, as I haven’t looked very deeply into the Raelians, but my feeling has been that the name was chosen to be evocative of both Az’rael (angelic overseer of the metempsychosis of souls, particularly with regard to eschatology,) and Louis Riel, which would be a particularly powerful association for many french-canadians. (And Canadians in general, I should imagine.) If you’re not familiar with the life and death of Louis Riel, [here’s a short synopsis](http://www.oneworld.net/ips2/jul98/04_12_003.html). Suffice it to say that he had mystical visions, spoke with angels, felt commanded by God to establish a place in Canada for a Metis (mixed-race) peoples, got as far as the creation of the Province of Manitoba, and then was betrayed and hung for treason. (My birthday falls on the date of his execution, not that that’s significant of anything.) ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/4 "2002-12-31T04:39:25Z")
For a book I was once writing, I came up with the name “Rael” for the evil goddess right off the top of my head. Weird coincidence. (This was years before I ever heard anything about the Raelians. Guess they’d sue me if I finished it and ever published). ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/5 "2002-12-31T04:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course the album (started in 1973) came long before the alleged cloned human I think, **Doctor Goo Fee** , you answered your own question. > [@](#): > > but I think the Raelians have been planning to make a clone for some time But nuttin’. Cloning wasn’t even in vogue in '73. But I certainly wouldn’t put it past Genesis to pull such a thing. 😉 Superman’s relatives were angels? Seriously though, I wouldn’t be astounded to learn that these people actually did what they claim. It’s not at all impossible. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/6 "2002-12-31T04:57:23Z")
I wondered where Raelians came from till I saw their Grand Poobah is named Rael. There’s a [long story Peter Gabriel wrote in the liner notes](http://www.genesis-music.com/lamb1.htm) that accompany “Lamb Lies Down On Broadway”. I suppose the part where Rael encounters Death and the Salamander women could be, depending on what culture’s mythology you want to apply, somehow relate to merging spiritual life with daily life, rebirth and regeneration. I doubt the name coincidence means any more than Rael’s Mother Ship will have lots of early Genesis and Peter Gabriel albums. yes, vinyl LP’s 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/7 "2002-12-31T05:11:50Z")
Off to Cafe Society. **DrMatrix** - General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/8 "2002-12-31T05:39:35Z")
_Rael, welcome. We are the Lamia of the poooool We have been waiting for our waters to bring you cool_ Now, the Lamia are swimming snakes with the heads of women. Rael (in this extremely demented fantasy) somehow copulates with them. The precise tactics of this sexual act are not explained. The only possibility that comes to mind is fellatio, but the lyrics and liner notes seem to imply sexual intercourse. Hard to tell exactly what Gabriel was smoking, err, I mean thinking. However, the sex that is not sex is an obvious allusion to the cloning process, which is asexual but uses sex chromosomes. The “pool” symbolizes the amniotic fluid of the clone. “We have been waiting for our waters to bring you cool” means the Raelians have long awaited this moment to achieve cloning; and it is something really cool. But Genesis seems to take an anti-cloning position. Rael’s punishment for sex with the Lamia is: first, they drop dead (so he eats their corpses); secondly, he mutates into a “Slipperman,” a horrible monster covered with rubbery bumps. The only cure for this bizarre metamorphosis is to amputate his penis. (_Doktor Dyper, reformed sniper, he’ll whip off your windscreen wiper. “Understand, Rael, it’s the end of your tail.” “Don’t delay, dock the dick!”_) It is placed into a plastic tube for storage, with the hope held out that it may be resuscitated on occasion for future use. Except that a raven swoops down and flies off with the precious tube… All of which gives a very negative, even nighmarish view of the cloning process. Genesis was trying to warn us! P.S. IIRC, 1973 was the year when cloning first hit the news. A novel appeared soon after, _Joshua Son of None_, in which President Kennedy was cloned and his clone is elected president in the future. There was also the Ira Levin novel at that time _The Boys from Brazil_ about a whole bunch of Adolf Hitler clones. So it was definitely on people’s minds then. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/9 "2002-12-31T06:08:12Z")
Umm…yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/10 "2002-12-31T08:33:40Z")
**Jomo Mojo** : you’re joking. Right? Please tell me you’re joking. [sub]Great album, by the way.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/11 "2002-12-31T08:54:08Z")
Should we call it “joking” or “allowing the fantastical imagination to run riot for a brief space, taking the OP’s ball and running with it beyond unheard-of dimensions of unreality” … ? Your call. I mean, I had listened to the _Lamb_ countless times, and only when I tried to explain it to someone who hadn’t heard it did I realize how utterly fucking insane that story is. The incredibly good music lulls your brain into just accepting the deeply weird dementia. _LLDoB_ did for the concept album what _Eraserhead_ did for film. But it was more fun, because of the music. And _what_ music! As to the OP (seriously): Rael was supposed to be a Puerto Rican street punk. Genesis (nice upper middle class English boys) revealed their utter cluelessness as to what actual P.R. _cholo_ life on the streets of New York is like; I imagine their closest encounter with Puerto Ricans had been watching _West Side Story_. I guessed they had taken the name “Raul” and changed a letter to make it look weirder, possibly lending a Biblical flavor as the OP speculated. I tend to think that the resemblance to saucerboy Raël was sheer coincidence. But maybe it wasn’t a coincidence??? ---
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/12 "2002-12-31T17:41:04Z")
Just a bit off topic, band-wise, but check this out:[http://www.thewho.net/discography/songs/Rael.html](http://www.thewho.net/discography/songs/Rael.html) ---
**Author:** ![ChuckForbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@ChuckForbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckForbin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/13 "2002-12-31T20:00:15Z")
**JoMo** - The Lamb used to be one of my favorite albums until I read your detailed description. Now, I’m a bit creeped out. But anyway, I’m glad we have some of your dementia to balance the hyperintelligence all to common on this board. Good Work. _Yes it’s only knock and knowall, but I like it like it_ ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/14 "2002-12-31T22:15:40Z")
_This is an announcement from Genetic Control: “It is my sad duty to inform ye of a 4 foot restriction, on humanoid height”_. Yeah, they were certainly familar with the concept of cloning. > [@](#): > > Now, the Lamia are swimming snakes with the heads of women. Rael (in this extremely demented fantasy) somehow copulates with them. The precise tactics of this sexual act are not explained. I’ve always sorts equated the eating of each other’s flesh with the act of copulating actually. (But who the heck really knows? Except Gabriel of course). ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/15 "2002-12-31T22:16:43Z")
I’ve always _sorta…_ ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/16 "2002-12-31T23:45:47Z")
I was being facetious as well, yet **JoMo** may be onto something. Though I’ve not heard the Raelians mention Gabriel or LLDOB, maybe we can keep the OP ball rolling and impose just such a cosmic connection with Raelians! 🙂 _after the interlude with the Lamia (above)_ (from the Gabriel liner-notes link above) > [@](#): > > Leaving by the same door from which he had come in, he finds some sort of freaks’ ghetto on the other side. When they catch sight of him the entire street of distorted figures burst into laughter. One of the colony approaches him. He is grotesque in every feature, a mixture of ugly lumps and stumps. > His lips slip across his chin as he smiles in welcome and offers his slippery handshake. Rael is a little disillusioned, when the Slipperman reveals that the entire colony have one-by-one been through the same glorious romantic tragedy with the same three Lamia, who regenerate themselves every time, and that now Rael shares their physical appearance and shadowy fate. > Amongst the contorted faces of the Slippermen, Rael recognizes what is left of his brother John. They hug each other, John bitterly explains that the entire life of the Slipperman is devoted to satisfying the never-ending hunger of the senses, which has been inherited from the Lamia. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/17 "2003-01-01T01:08:35Z")
I’d guess that “Rael” is just a corruption of “Gabriel”. . .as in, you know, Peter. “Rael” is also the title of a Who song (the last track on _The Who Sell Out_), originally intended as part of an aborted pre-_Tommy_ rock opera project. “Rael” is the name of the heroes homeland, and is probably derived from “Israel”. This could possible have served as the inspiration for name of the hero of _The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway_. Oh, and before anyone asks, I didn’t get my username from _The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway_ – I’d never even heard of it until people started asking me if I’d named myself after it! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/18 "2003-01-01T01:45:46Z")
**Lamia** , your name always reminds me of the surreal short story _Lamia Mutable_, by M. John Harrison, published in Harlen Ellison’s _Again, Dangerous Visions_. But I figured you probably got it from Keats. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/19 "2003-01-01T02:13:09Z")
IMHO, the genesis (ha!) for the name _Rael_ in **TLLDOB** would actually be the play on words used in Gabriel’s lyrics to **it** : _It is real / It is Rael_ Rael is the ultimate reality, IOW. Then you’ve also got the possible pun of “is Rael” being Israel. Gabriel is a surreal genius… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805/20 "2003-01-01T02:26:15Z")
**Coldfire** and **ChuckForbin** , you mean you really weren’t aware of what happened in _TLLDoB_ until I spelled it out for you? Did you ever read the lyrics and liner notes? Well, never mind the distressing story line. Just close your eyes and let the soothing music wash over you and forget all those nasty events. _"Through the door, a harvest feast is lit by candlelight / It’s the bottom of a staircase that spirals out of sight…_" **Lobot** , of course! :smack: The song _it_ was the key to Rael’s identity. Now that you point _it_ out. I should have thought of _it_. I never quite “got” that last song, because _it_ was hard to see how _it_ fit in with the rest of the album. _it_ seemed sort of tacked on and inconclusive. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clones-rael-and-genesis-the-band/145805.md?page=2)