# Cloning a Neandertal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098 "2013-01-23T13:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/1 "2013-01-23T13:29:48Z")
This has been in the news lately. Assuming it becomes technically feasible, is it ethical to clone a Neandertal (or a group of Neandertals) to be raised to adulthood? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/2 "2013-01-23T13:33:20Z")
I’ll add that I believe that, if technically feasible, some laboratory will do it, but I’m unsure about the ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/3 "2013-01-23T14:35:22Z")
Neanderthals were human. They had music, religion, and a complex society. Cloning them like lab rats would indeed be unethical. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/4 "2013-01-23T14:36:17Z")
Clearly you never watched The Jersey Shore. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/5 "2013-01-23T14:37:49Z")
Let’s clone one and ask him / her. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/6 "2013-01-23T14:38:09Z")
So long as they were treated ethically, and their natural rights protected, I don’t think causing them to be born is unethical. We let people create human life every day, after all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/7 "2013-01-23T14:48:33Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Neanderthals were human. They had music, religion, and a complex society. Cloning them like lab rats would indeed be unethical. Yes, but how about (with volunteer surrogates) creating Neandertal embryos, implanting them, raising them as normal children, with occasional visits by the researchers to observe, measure, and report (with no discomfort)? I assume that’s how it would be done. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/8 "2013-01-23T14:55:45Z")
It would be as ethical as cloning any other person to create a human baby. Which means, as long as the human baby created by cloning is treated like every other baby created with the aid of every other type of fertility treatment, then there are no ethical issues. We’ve allowed sperm donation, egg donation, surrogate pregnancy, and IVF, so how exactly is cloning that different? Just because a baby was created by cloning it wouldn’t make them a slave, or the property of a doctor or corporation. We already have the 13th and 14th Amendments that prohibits slavery and makes everyone born in the United States a US citizen with the same rights as every other citizen. These Amendments don’t include clauses “except for clones, you can enslave them”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/9 "2013-01-23T14:57:15Z")
Why am I thinking about _Planet of the Apes?_ iiandyiiii has a good plan. (Yeah, I know, famous last words…) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/10 "2013-01-23T14:58:03Z")
I imagine there would be privacy issues- if it happened, the identities of those involved should be kept secret- which might mean no public pictures. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/11 "2013-01-23T15:00:21Z")
I don’t understand why cloning would be unethical. Either with H. Sapiens or H. Neanderthalis. Ethics really only gets involved after they’re born (assuming you’re not creating a monster or something). Treat them well and give them freedom and autonomy and it will be fine. I for one look forward to the day when real Neanderthals can hunt real mammoths out on the tundra, and then head home and play Xbox. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/12 "2013-01-23T15:03:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > We already have the 13th and 14th Amendments that prohibits slavery and makes everyone born in the United States a US citizen with the same rights as every other citizen. These Amendments don’t include clauses “except for clones, you can enslave them”. The courts will have to decide whether another species of human counts as “people”. Which hopefully they would. I don’t really believe Neanderthals were inferior to us Cro Magnons, at least not in any way that should matter in politics. But that’s partly what we’d want to study. Get ready for a big civil rights battle. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/13 "2013-01-23T15:06:42Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The courts will have to decide whether another species of human counts as “people”. Which hopefully they would. I don’t really believe Neanderthals were inferior to us Cro Magnons, at least not in any way that should matter in politics. But that’s partly what we’d want to study. Get ready for a big civil rights battle. I don’t think the battle would be that big… I doubt even the researchers would want to deny them civil rights- they would only ask for occasional observations, and probably happily pay for the privelige. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/14 "2013-01-23T15:28:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think the battle would be that big… I doubt even the researchers would want to deny them civil rights- they would only ask for occasional observations, and probably happily pay for the privelige. It’s not the researchers I worry about. The same type of people who used to (or currently) believe blacks or gays or Mexicans are inferior would raise a huge outcry. They’d probably say their religious and economic freedom is being infringed unless they can enslave the neanderthals. I think you underestimate the desire people have to oppress others. It makes them feel superior. For what it’s worth I think the same kind of thing would happen with aliens, regardless of their technological sophistication. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/15 "2013-01-23T15:34:39Z")
I think this is on par with cloning a person that has Down’s. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/16 "2013-01-23T15:38:50Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not the researchers I worry about. The same type of people who used to (or currently) believe blacks or gays or Mexicans are inferior would raise a huge outcry. They’d probably say their religious and economic freedom is being infringed unless they can enslave the neanderthals. > > I think you underestimate the desire people have to oppress others. It makes them feel superior. For what it’s worth I think the same kind of thing would happen with aliens, regardless of their technological sophistication. I think you’re way off base, here. A “huge” outcry, demanding the enslavement of cloned Neanderthals? No chance. > [@Sitnam](#): > > I think this is on par with cloning a person that has Down’s. Meaning what, that both are ethically wrong, or that both are right? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/17 "2013-01-23T15:39:25Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I think this is on par with cloning a person that has Down’s. Why? Neandertals weren’t disabled _Homo sapiens sapiens_, they were fully functional human beings, with brains that had a greater cranial capacity than modern humans. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/18 "2013-01-23T15:42:08Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Why? Neandertals weren’t disabled _Homo sapiens sapiens_, they were fully functional human beings, with brains that had a greater cranial capacity than modern humans. Agreed. From [here:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_behavior) > [@](#): > > Skeletal evidence shows that injured individuals were often nursed back to health by others. Neanderthals rarely made contact with outsiders or traveled outside their small home territories. Although many Neanderthal sites have rare pieces of high-quality stone from more than 100 kilometers away, there is not enough to indicate trade or even regular contact with other communities. > > It has been suggested by one pair of researchers that these stones may instead be “gifts” brought by adolescents wishing to join a new community (some form of “marrying out” was essential due to the small size of Neanderthal territories). In their view, this lack of trade could indicate that Neanderthals may have lacked some cognitive abilities for dealing with strangers, such as “cheater detection” and the ability to judge the value of one commodity in terms of another. The quality of tools found at archaeological sites is further said to suggest that Neanderthals were good at “expert” cognition, a form of observational learning and practice acquired through apprenticeship that relies heavily on long-term procedural memory. > > Neanderthal toolmaking supposedly changed little over hundreds of thousands of years. The lack of innovation was said to imply they may have had a reduced capacity for thinking by analogy and less working memory. The researchers further speculated that Neanderthal behavior would probably seem neophobic, dogmatic and xenophobic to modern humans. Different, but not disabled. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/19 "2013-01-23T15:54:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The courts will have to decide whether another species of human counts as “people”. Which hopefully they would. I don’t really believe Neanderthals were inferior to us Cro Magnons, at least not in any way that should matter in politics. But that’s partly what we’d want to study. Get ready for a big civil rights battle. The courts would first have to decide if it was legal. Cloning a human is illegal, but if the courts don’t decide it’s illegal to clone a Neanderthal, then how can it be considered “human”? I do think there are ethical problems, but not nearly as much as cloning, say, an _H_. _erectus_. We have every reason to believe that Neanderthals interbred with modern humans, and probably lived them with them as well. I think we’d have to make it a ward of the state though, just in case it, for whatever reason, was not capable of functioning in society. Oh, and it’s _H. neanderthalensis_. Just so everyone knows. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![oldbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oldbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldbag)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098/20 "2013-01-23T15:54:41Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The courts will have to decide whether another species of human counts as “people”. Which hopefully they would. I don’t really believe Neanderthals were inferior to us Cro Magnons, at least not in any way that should matter in politics. But that’s partly what we’d want to study. Get ready for a big civil rights battle. Hey Cro Magnon, Who cloned you? How do you feel about it? (Most people I’ve met are Homo sapiens sapiens) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cloning-a-neandertal/648098.md?page=2)