# Close but...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 27, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424 "2001-08-27T22:47:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@TheNewbie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNewbie)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/1 "2001-08-27T22:47:13Z")
“Close but no cigar”
Where did that saying come from? Who didn’t get the cigar, and what were they tryin for anyways? I tried a google search on such subject but all I could find was Clinton stuff…any ideas?
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### Author:  [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2001, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/2 "2001-08-27T22:50:16Z")
[http://bostoncigar.com/html/close\_\_but\_no\_cigar.htm](http://bostoncigar.com/html/close__but_no_cigar.htm)
(When searching Google for a phrase, put it in quote marks.)
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### Author:  [@TheNewbie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNewbie)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2001, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/3 "2001-08-27T22:52:16Z")
Thanks…as you can see. I’m new here.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2001, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/4 "2001-08-28T01:46:27Z")
Someone posted the same question over at [Dave Wilton’s](http://pub55.ezboard.com/fwordoriginsorgfrm1) wonderful etymology(see, I do know the difference) site today. I replied thusly,
> [@](#):
>
> Lighter cites it first from 1935, in the film “Annie Oakley.”
>
> He further cites the phrase just as “no cigar” in 1938 and 1940. So it may have started out as simply “no cigar” which still meant a “near miss.”
If the phrase was as common at the turn of the century or before as the cigar website suggests, it probably would have been in the lexicon before Lighter’s sighting in 1935. I can’t prove it, but there would appear to be some old fashioned puffery in the story. I hesitate to say it is a total fabrication.
Aw, why not. I think that their story was made up from whole cloth. Read it again. I think the guy who wrote the story about “life in the 1500’s” wrote both of them.
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### Author:  [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2001, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/5 "2001-08-28T04:10:54Z")
This seems like a case of excessive skepticism, samclem. What is the evidence that the phrase _did not_ originate on midways as proposed by the “puffery?” And what element seems fake? Midways? Test-your-strength booths? Barkers? Cigars offered as prizes? The origin may have been later than 1900, the rest makes sense to me. (Well, the “only rich people could afford cigars” bit is untrue…there were cigars of all qualities and prices.)
The chances are slim that it was invented specifically for the 1935 Annie Oakley movie, as Hollywood tends to follow linguistic trends, not make them. It would be interesting to see how the phrase is used in the movie…
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/6 "2001-08-28T04:23:27Z")
**Wumpus** I agree wholeheartedly that the phrase wasn’t “made up” for the movie. That is only the first sighting in print that we know of.
I agree with you also, that the origin of the phrase may be since 1900. In fact, I’m sure it is. But that cigar site would have you believe it originated “for sure” in the last century at carnivals. Prove it.
> [@](#):
>
> What is the evidence that it “didn’t” evolve on the midway?
Rather…What is the evidence that it “did?” Some drivel written on a web page, sounding as if it was written by the guys on homeshopping selling coins? Where does the writer get his “facts” except from his imagination?
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### Author:  [@Cougarfang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cougarfang)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2001, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/close-but/78424/7 "2001-08-28T07:35:42Z")
huh… i saw a garfield comic strip before… garfield had a close shave with jon concerning baths, and jon got wet instead of garfield, and garfield said “close, but no banana”. does that have anything to do with it?