# "Closer controversy" at the AS game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 15, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604 "2008-07-15T21:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/1 "2008-07-15T21:30:24Z")
[This](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar08/news/story?id=3488087) is the most bullshit, made-up story of the week. So Papelbon wants the ball, so what? Doesn’t ANY good, competitive pitcher want the ball? And his puss-out retraction makes me sick. For the record, I despise the Yankees, and am no Red Sox fan. No dog in this fight for me. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/2 "2008-07-15T21:48:50Z")
[QUOTE=wheresgeorge04] [This](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar08/news/story?id=3488087) is the most bullshit, made-up story of the week. So Papelbon wants the ball, so what? Doesn’t ANY good, competitive pitcher want the ball? And his puss-out retraction makes me sick. For the record, I despise the Yankees, and am no Red Sox fan. No dog in this fight for me. Joe [/QUOTE] Furthermore… when MLB made ‘this game count’, they opened it up for strategic decisions to outweigh popular ones. The Red Sox have a damn good chance at making it back to the World Series. If Francona thinks he can gain an edge by pitching Paps in the 9th over Rivera, he should do it. Making a game ‘for the fans’ and ‘count’ should be mutually exclusive. I almost hope Rivera actually gives up a winning run in the 9th, and the Red Sox end up losing the World Series in 7. That’s show MLB (well, the managers, anyways) how much sentiment they should be putting into a competitive gameplan. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/3 "2008-07-15T22:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Making a game ‘for the fans’ and ‘count’ should be mutually exclusive. I disagree. The point is that for the sake of the fans, the managers should manage as if they intend to win the game. If the managers are attempting any other purpose (i.e., protecting players for “real” games, displaying hometown favorites) then the game is less entertaining. This is an incentive to the managers to not burn through the roster overly quickly, like they did in the 2002 tie. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/4 "2008-07-15T22:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] I disagree. The point is that for the sake of the fans, the managers should manage as if they intend to win the game. If the managers are attempting any other purpose (i.e., protecting players for “real” games, displaying hometown favorites) then the game is less entertaining. This is an incentive to the managers to not burn through the roster overly quickly, like they did in the 2002 tie. [/QUOTE] The game’s in New York. Last year of the most storied stadium in baseball. You think the fans there want to see some guy from Boston closing the game, instead of (arguably) the greatest closer in Yankees history and the game? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/5 "2008-07-15T22:41:23Z")
There are more fans watching the game than the 45,000 or so in Yankee Stadium. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/6 "2008-07-15T23:33:01Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] There are more fans watching the game than the 45,000 or so in Yankee Stadium. [/QUOTE] People really watch the All-Star game on television? (says the man with the TV turned to Fox) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/7 "2008-07-16T00:43:58Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] There are more fans watching the game than the 45,000 or so in Yankee Stadium. [/QUOTE] Yes, and most of them know Rivera should be closing out the game no matter what the score is. This is a no brainer this time and **wheresgeorge04** is correct, this was a bullshit non-story in a slow sports week. BTW: This is reminiscent of when A-Rod moved to 3rd so Ripken could play one last All Star game at short in his final season. Except of course that Rivera is actually just as good as Papelbon so these decision is even easier. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/8 "2008-07-16T01:27:25Z")
Quite frankly, as a Royals fan I’m a little miffed that Papelbon thinks he’s the one who should be considered for the closing spot vs Mariano Rivera. Joakim Soria has been almost perfect as a closer this year, better than Papelbon. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/9 "2008-07-16T03:35:35Z")
I don’t really care what Papelbon said, but the simple fact is that Mariano Rivera is the best closer in baseball, hands down. His ERA is 1.06. He has pitched more rinnings than Papelbon, given up fewer hits, fewer homers, fewer walks. This is not a one year fluke; he is, in terms of his ERA relative to his competitors, **the greatest pitcher in the entire history of major league baseball to pitch a substantial number of innings.** It is something to say that Rivera is better than Joakim Soria, because Soria has been ridiculously awesome, but it is so; Rivera has been better. So Rivera is the best closer ever having one of his best seasons. I cannot think of any baseball fan with his head screwed on straight who would not admit Rivera is the best closer in baseball right now, the best ever, and the best man to have on the mound when the game’s on the line. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/10 "2008-07-16T03:38:41Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I don’t really care what Papelbon said, but the simple fact is that Mariano Rivera is the best closer in baseball, hands down. His ERA is 1.06. He has pitched more rinnings than Papelbon, given up fewer hits, fewer homers, fewer walks. This is not a one year fluke; he is, in terms of his ERA relative to his competitors, **the greatest pitcher in the entire history of major league baseball to pitch a substantial number of innings.** It is something to say that Rivera is better than Joakim Soria, because Soria has been ridiculously awesome, but it is so; Rivera has been better. So Rivera is the best closer ever having one of his best seasons. I cannot think of any baseball fan with his head screwed on straight who would not admit Rivera is the best closer in baseball right now, the best ever, and the best man to have on the mound when the game’s on the line. [/QUOTE] I of course agree with this 100% but did you have to wait until after Papelbon gave up a run and Mo cleaned up an inherited running from K-Rod. 😉 Meanwhile the idiots announcers are making too much out of a little booing by the local fans. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/11 "2008-07-16T04:05:56Z")
Just want to clarify - I was not saying that Soria is better than Rivera (this year or career) but that he’s better (at least this year) than Papelbon. I’m annoyed by whoever out there (manufacturing the “controversy”) is thinking that the only options are the New York option and the Boston option. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/12 "2008-07-16T04:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] Just want to clarify - I was not saying that Soria is better than Rivera (this year or career) but that he’s better (at least this year) than Papelbon. I’m annoyed by whoever out there (manufacturing the “controversy”) is thinking that the only options are the New York option and the Boston option. [/QUOTE] It was primarily the [NY Post](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch) of course, that noted publication of high journalistic integrity owned by guess who? Translated, the troll of the News Media. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/13 "2008-07-16T04:41:46Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] Just want to clarify - I was not saying that Soria is better than Rivera (this year or career) but that he’s better (at least this year) than Papelbon. I’m annoyed by whoever out there (manufacturing the “controversy”) is thinking that the only options are the New York option and the Boston option. [/QUOTE] That curveball Soria threw to Uggla was one of the filthyist pitches I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/14 "2008-07-16T12:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] That curveball Soria threw to Uggla was one of the filthyist pitches I’ve ever seen. [/QUOTE] Poor Uggla, that was the worst All Star performance I have ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/15 "2008-07-16T12:56:43Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I of course agree with this 100% but did you have to wait until after Papelbon gave up a run and Mo cleaned up an inherited running from K-Rod. 😉 [/QUOTE] I really felt Rivera was “supposed” to get the win last night. The NL did very well to get out of that bases-loaded, no-out jam. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/16 "2008-07-16T13:04:04Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I really felt Rivera was “supposed” to get the win last night. The NL did very well to get out of that bases-loaded, no-out jam. [/QUOTE] I did too, but it was not meant to be. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closer-controversy-at-the-as-game/456604/17 "2008-07-16T14:14:30Z")
I agree Rivera is the best closer currently. I don’t know why Papelbon would even be in the running for #1. Rivera 23 saves, 1.06 era Joe Natahn 27 saves, 1.13 era Soria 25 saves, 1.47 era Papelbon 28 saves, 2.43 era