# Closing military bases **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693 "2005-05-13T16:12:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/1 "2005-05-13T16:12:30Z")
I’ve been reading about how there’s a number of military bases to be closed, and that’ll result in _x_ number of jobs lost. How does that work? I’m assuming the vast majority of base employees are military. Are they told, “Hey, we’re closing, so you’re not in the miltary anymore?” Or, is it a situation where the ‘loss of job’ is just in terms of local economy, and the soldiers/saliors/etc will just be reassigned elsewhere (in which case, the terminology sucks, becuase that’s still very much being employed). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/2 "2005-05-13T16:19:01Z")
Military personnel are reassigned. Military bases, though, typically employ a substantial number of local civilian employees either directly or through contractors. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/3 "2005-05-13T16:20:19Z")
Military people are just reassigned. The vast majority of these jobs are civilian. Those of sufficient seniority are packed up and moved out. The others have preferential treatment in finding other government jobs. Some people win, some lose. The idea is consolidating bases saves the military basket loads of money. It is well worth doing. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/4 "2005-05-13T16:33:09Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Military people are just reassigned. The vast majority of these jobs are civilian. Those of sufficient seniority are packed up and moved out. The others have preferential treatment in finding other government jobs. > > Some people win, some lose. The idea is consolidating bases saves the military basket loads of money. It is well worth doing. In the short term, military personnel are reassigned, but in the long term, it does mean fewer billets in the military, it just takes longer for it to happen. Bottom line is fewer platforms and fewer bases means fewer personnel in uniform. Believe it or not, there is increaing pressure to cut billets in the military due to the increase compensation costs. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/5 "2005-05-13T19:53:01Z")
In a lot of places, the local military base is the largest employer. If they leave, the surrounding economy may suffer. Especially all the stores and bars and restaurants that the soldiers carouse at. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/6 "2005-05-13T20:01:37Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I’ve been reading about how there’s a number of military bases to be closed, and that’ll result in _x_ number of jobs lost… Like the senator on TV said this afternoon, "Not in my state, ours are essential to the war on terror, etc. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It will have to be some place else! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/7 "2005-05-13T21:40:35Z")
Reverse NIMBY-ism! ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/8 "2005-05-13T21:41:40Z")
I read the BRAC Closure list this morning, and I was struck by one thing: Of the two bases I’ve done construction on, both are closing (Ellsworth and Cannon AFBs). I have the touch of death. :smack: Tripler Please, finish this war on terror before I build anything else. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/9 "2005-05-13T21:46:48Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Reverse NIMBY-ism! Exactly. You can bet that every legislator is gonna do their darndest to make sure it’s somebody else whose local economy is affected. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/10 "2005-05-13T22:12:10Z")
Here’s the official list of base realignments and closings: [BRAC 2005](http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/Appendix_C_FinalUpdated.pdf) (pdf file 117k) Does anyone know what the numbers in this document mean? Are they number of positions or something else? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/11 "2005-05-13T22:18:31Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I’ve been reading about how there’s a number of military bases to be closed, and that’ll result in _x_ number of jobs lost. > > How does that work? I’m assuming the vast majority of base employees are military. Are they told, “Hey, we’re closing, so you’re not in the miltary anymore?” Or, is it a situation where the ‘loss of job’ is just in terms of local economy, and the soldiers/saliors/etc will just be reassigned elsewhere (in which case, the terminology sucks, becuase that’s still very much being employed). 😃 Our state is getting a new base. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/12 "2005-05-13T22:23:23Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Here’s the official list of base realignments and closings: [BRAC 2005](http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/Appendix_C_FinalUpdated.pdf) (pdf file 117k) Does anyone know what the numbers in this document mean? Are they number of positions or something else? Well, it is more or less the number of positions being either gained or (lost). For example, take Alabama’s Anniston Army Depot. It’s losing 87 civilain positions (indicated by the parenthesis), but gaining 1,121 civilian positions, with a net gain of 1,034 civvies to start working there. Whether this is a specific unit or fucntion, I don’t know, but yes, the numbers indicate the movement of personell to or from a base. Tripler Thank goodness Malmstrom was spared . . . :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/13 "2005-05-13T22:36:45Z")
The local (~40 mile away) base (Ft. McCoy) employs ~3000 civilians. It survived the recent cust, probably because it is a major Nat’l guard training place. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/14 "2005-05-13T23:22:34Z")
Every time they close bases, I have to make sure the base I was born on didn’t close, because then I’d have a birthplace that doesn’t exist anymore. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/15 "2005-05-13T23:46:08Z")
Damn, this sucks. I decided to take a look at satellite/aerial photos and found this: Before: [Navy Nuclear Power School in Orlando](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=17&X=1169&Y=7898&W=2&qs=%7cOrlando%7cFL%7c) as it was (the two “Y” shaped buildings). After: [Totally unrecognizable empty land, probably being prepared for McMansions](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=11&Z=17&X=1169&Y=7898&W=2&qs=%7cOrlando%7cFL%7c) Kind of makes me want to shed a tear – I’m not _that_ old. Hell, they had just finished building that skinny building to the left of the two Ys when I got there – it’s where they had the “pre school” where you got up to speed on math and physics before getting into the good stuff. It’s like finding out that they tore down your high school ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/16 "2005-05-14T00:22:41Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Every time they close bases, I have to make sure the base I was born on didn’t close, because then I’d have a birthplace that doesn’t exist anymore. Strange you should mention that. The base I was born on (or maybe just part of it) is on the list. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/17 "2005-05-14T00:46:26Z")
I see they’re planning to close Willow Grove NAS. A number of years ago, they changed that from being a NAS to a Joint Reserve base, so does that mean just the Navy ops are closing, or is the whole deal shutting down? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/18 "2005-05-14T01:21:53Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > I read the BRAC Closure list this morning, and I was struck by one thing: Of the two bases I’ve done construction on, both are closing (Ellsworth and Cannon AFBs). I thought I read something that said Ellsworth is the 2nd largest employer in the entire state of North Dakota. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/19 "2005-05-14T01:25:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I thought I read something that said Ellsworth is the 2nd largest employer in the entire state of North Dakota. Well, considering that Ellsworth is in _South_ Dakota, I’d quote that article as being completely wrong. Tripler And one base employing a big chunk of any state? C’mon . . . ---
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693/20 "2005-05-14T01:54:53Z")
Actually, a total of 18,000 civilian jobs will be lost through base closures and realignments. Those jobs will either go away or be contracted out. What a surprise, NOT! The military personnel, of course, will be reassigned. I’m fortunate in that the military installation I work for will actually gain a few people, but this presents possible problems too. In other words, there will be a hiring freeze and positions will be held for those people who have lost their jobs due their installation closing or realigning. It’s fair, in a way; but there are always folks who are currently at the installation who want to move up the food chain. Having lived through this 10 years ago, I can see a lot of frustration and morale problems. Add to this the fact that some organizations on this installations are slated to be first under the new pay system for civil servants and times will become bleak. I find it interesting that many of the DFAS offices are being closed down because they want regionalize those services again. Back in 1995, (the last BRAC), they shut down the Command Finance and Accounting Office located on our installation. The folks there were given the option of moving to Rome, NY or accepting a position offered to them on the installation (resulting in downgrades for many), or just plain getting out of civil service, either through retirement or resigning. The Rome, NY DFAS is now slated for closure. Ultimately, this list will change to some degree. It still needs to go through the BRAC commission, the Senate and the President. We’ll see which Reps and Senators have the most power then. The actual closures and realignments wouldn’t start until 2006. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-military-bases/303693.md?page=2)