# Closing threads **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 14, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063 "2020-12-14T23:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/61 "2020-12-16T21:04:37Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > You literally just saud both sides provoke each other. My exact words: > That said, no side has a monopoly on baiting the denizens of this board. And you say “there is no game here”. 🤨 If there really was no game here, you wouldn’t be twisting words. Buh-bye now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/62 "2020-12-16T21:11:56Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > If there really was no game here, you wouldn’t be twisting words. Buh-bye now. Same here. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/63 "2020-12-16T21:31:52Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Feel free to make an argument (ANY ARGUMENT) on that thread instead of linking random articles taht you think support you. Well, they did, it is very underwhelming to claim that arguments that one can cite from experts or more experienced people are worthless. Since their opinions (mine too) and expert advise are not death with, they stand. That is all. Like Colibri and others said, and I agree 🙂, it’s not worth it for me also to continue to respond to you in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/64 "2020-12-16T21:47:02Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > My exact words: How is that different from saying both sides do it? > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Buh-bye now. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Same here. Bye. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, they did, it is very underwhelming to claim that arguments that one can cite from experts or more experienced people are worthless. Once again you cited a college student’s op ed piece in a college newspaper among other things. Your cites are not good. Your arguments are frequently hard to detect. Just linking to an opinion piece is not an argument. You will notice that noone here is jumping in to defend your position on the thread in question. Mostly criticizing me for my tone. And I admit that my tone degenerates when I have to deal with racism and racist ideas being held up as social justice. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Like Colibri and others said, and I agree 🙂, it’s not worth it for me also to continue to respond to you in this thread. Bye. Perhaps you can present an argument in that other thread when you get a chance. ANY ARGUMENT will do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/65 "2020-12-16T22:10:29Z")
Interesting question: if someone’s behavior in Great Debates is such that **mods** are thinking they’re not debating in a way that makes the board better, maybe Great Debates would be improved by that poster’s exile? Yeah, yeah, hive mind woke sheeple mob pitchforks whatever. Regardless of their beliefs, if their tactics are just pissing everyone off through misrepresentation and unrealistic cite-demands, I say they get uninvited from the party. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/66 "2020-12-16T22:42:06Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > On this board it does not. I will play nice when you guys do. I was suggesting a way for EVERYONE to play nice by cutting off these escalations before they escalate. I think you will find that in most threads my tone is merely an escalation of shitty tone from others. So, you think other folks ‘toeing’ the line allows you to too? I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works here. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/67 "2020-12-16T22:54:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Interesting question: if someone’s behavior in Great Debates is such that **mods** are thinking they’re not debating in a way that makes the board better, maybe Great Debates would be improved by that poster’s exile? Well things have certainly been heading in that direction of late, and my expectation is that this trend will continue. > [_“Shoot these rabid dogs. Death to this gang who hide their ferocious teeth, their eagle claws, from the people! Down with that vulture Trotsky, from whose mouth a bloody venom drips, putrefying the great ideals of Marxism!.. Down with these abject animals! Let’s put an end once and for all to these miserable hybrids of foxes and pigs, these stinking corpses! Let’s exterminate the mad dogs of capitalism, who want to tear to pieces the flower of our new Soviet nation! Let’s push the bestial hatred they bear our leaders back down their own throats!”_] ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/68 "2020-12-16T23:07:21Z")
I am at a loss for words. Reality has long disappeared over the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/69 "2020-12-16T23:09:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well things have certainly been heading in that direction of late, and my expectation is that this trend will continue. Wow. That is just offensively over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/70 "2020-12-16T23:12:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Wow. That is just offensively over the top As a Czar, I’d think you’d be a lot more worried about the coming Revolution here at the Dope ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/71 "2020-12-16T23:16:10Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > So, you think other folks ‘toeing’ the line allows you to too? > I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works here. I think that in the majority of cases, I am not the one that starts with the sniping but I could be wrong. I think in the OVERWHELMING majority of cases if a moderator says “simmer down” the tone of the thread becomes much more polite and a few of the posters predictably disappear with some regularity. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works here. I am merely making a suggestion that I think would improve debate. I think it would help, I don’t see how it would make it worse. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/72 "2020-12-16T23:22:18Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I am merely making a suggestion that I think would improve debate. How 'bout this for a suggestion, stop taking the bait. (To the extent that it’s that and not you instigating things.) ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/73 "2020-12-16T23:48:56Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > How 'bout this for a suggestion, stop taking the bait. > (To the extent that it’s that and not you instigating things.) It’s easier said than done. This is a little rich from someone getting their back up about a suggestion to improve things around here. If my suggestions is offensive to you in some way, please explain it to me so I can help make you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/74 "2020-12-16T23:51:36Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > This is a little rich from someone getting their back up about a suggestion to improve things around here. If my suggestions is offensive to you in some way, please explain it to me so I can help make you feel better. After the above? Yeah, it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/75 "2020-12-16T23:59:31Z")
Do you realize that “bothsiderism” isn’t even a word? Do you not see the red squiggly line? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/76 "2020-12-17T01:17:23Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do you realize that “bothsiderism” isn’t even a word? Are you just nitpicking about exactly how it’s spelled? Because if you are complaining about bothsidesism as a word you are very much behind the times. It has been used by publications such as the NY Times [since at least 2016.](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/18/opinion/both-sides-now.html) > [@Paul Krugman](#): > > And the reason is that too much of the news media still can’t break with bothsidesism — the almost pathological determination to portray politicians and their programs as being equally good or equally bad, no matter how ludicrous that pretense becomes. It’s a recent coinage, but a very useful one. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/77 "2020-12-17T01:20:31Z")
No, no. Comparing a question about when to ban someone from a message board to calls for the state-sponsored murder of political dissidents is a measured, reasonable analogy that can only further good will and mutual understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/78 "2020-12-17T01:31:23Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I wonder if this isn’t what leads to the impression of biased moderation. The non-woke posts just generate more flags than non-woke posts because of the imbalance of posters on this site. So moderators ding the non-woke posts more frequently even though in the context of the thread there is no real difference. I’m assuming you mean “the non-woke posts generate more flags than the _woke_ posts because of the imbalance of posters on this site”. If so, yes, that is true, and has been mentioned times too numerous to count here in ATMB. It is a difficult effect to mitigate. I think the mods do a reasonable job of trying to clean up the mess, but then it isn’t my ox being gored most of the time. Accusations of biased moderation as a whole have been thrown around since the beginning of the board. No one has made a credible case. Your statement is the closest that anyone can come to it. Also note that the mods who get the most flack for being biased are typically getting the same flack from both sides. YMMV. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I don’t think its possible for moderators to skim through a thousand threads with hundreds of posts but if we are more liberal about issuing “simmer down now” moderation, then perhaps doing that more often will keep things from escalating This in itself doesn’t sound like a bad suggestion. However, many posters feel that the tone of the threads are already over-policed, and that limiting the amount of snark and venom a poster can use removes any fun element from the discussions. I don’t know that I agree, to the extent that there is a bit of a culture of who can sling the greatest, smartest zinger and still be in the rules. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I think there is a cottage industry among some elements of this board in making veiled insults and provoking emotional responses from others. Not necessarily trolling but provocation. When you moderate someone, do you look to see if they had been provoked? I think this is a fair question. Who started poking who is always a difficult game when kids are doing it in the back seat and you aren’t able to monitor directly, but on a board with a written record, it can be evaluated after the fact. There is a validity to the point that multiple posters on one side can line up and each slip in one zinger and everyone seem to be playing by the rules, but the one on the other side is stuck getting stung to death by the bees, and attempts to fight back look like they are just being nasty. If I were moderating, I certainly would be looking for that kind of behavior. I can’t speak to how the actual moderators do their job, other than many do seem to go and review problem threads in depth before handing out punishments. > [@BigT](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? I was talking about myself. I am the one getting provoked, then butthurt and maybe that leads to escalation. As **BigT** points out, your use of “butthurt” to apply to yourself is anomalous. “Butthurt” is a slang whiny accusation that the other person doesn’t have a real grievance. Using it on oneself is perplexing. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > It’s not like I have not tried to flag posts that start us down this road but I have received responses from various moderators in various threads effectively telling me to sit down, shut up and just take it until someone actually crosses a line. I’m saying that perhaps it would make sense to cut off this sort of sniping before it crosses the line. Yeah, I can’t speak to specific examples. My opinion is that pointing out folks are starting toward a line makes tons of posters start ranting in ATMB about the “new rules” and how the board is no fun any more. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It could theoretically be used that way, but that’s not the only usage. It could also be used in other ways, and is particularly relevant when discussing matters such as the impact of the overwhelming dominance of one particular viewpoint in a group discussion (or the desirability of such). That is a topic which happens to come up a lot on this MB. You think the terms “hive mind” and “echo chamber” are used neutrally? That there’s no snark at all in the choice of those terms? > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To be clear, I certainly agree that the term has a certain snarkiness even when used substantively. But in that sense, it’s well within the accepted levels of snarkiness that often accompanies substantive discussion on this MB. And at any rate, what I’m objecting to is that it’s a “simple admission that you are unable to win arguments on their merits” as you claimed. It’s frequently adding a bit of snark to a substantive point, which is extraordinarily common and accepted on this MB, from posters and moderators alike. I don’t believe there is an objective standard on what constitutes “an admission that you are unable to win arguments on their merits”, at least in the context of snarky remarks. People remain free to judge the merits of other posters’ viewpoints by their choice of using “Drumpf” or “Barack HUSSEIN Obama”, for instance. Deciding that “hive mind” is similar in use is their choice. You don’t have to agree. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > He did not. > > What he was saying is that posters were using bogus complaints about board standards to pressure him to conform to the majority viewpoint. Yes, he did. That he was trying to claim that other posters are using bogus arguments does not preclude that he denigrated the majority viewpoint that he disagrees with. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I’ve never used the term hive mind. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I don’t recall ever using the hie[sic] mind notion as the basis for any argument I have made. I use it to characterize a certain group and in it seems to serve well in that function because the people who are members of that group seem to know who they are. So which is it? You never use the word “hive mind”, or you do use it to characterize a certain group of people? > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I have used the term echo chamber and this site certainly qualifies and way left positions are reinforced by others who share those way left psotions to the point where people on this board think that some way left of center positions are mainstream. Of course that just begs the question of what is center? When the Tea Party are the moderate Right, what is the goalpost? “Mainstream” is a difficult thing to measure when the spectrum is skewed so wide. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/79 "2020-12-17T01:32:19Z")
No, I’m not complaining how it is spelled (because it isn’t an actual word). I would think that outside of MPSIMS, IMHO, The Pit, etc. standard English should be encouraged, in order to facilitate communication. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063/80 "2020-12-17T02:10:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “Hive mind” is used as an insult to denigrate the integrity of all opposing viewpoints. It indicates that no one else but you has any independence of thought. Insulting all your opponents at once is not really a tactic that gets you any credibility. No it doesn’t. You’re just making that up. Your rejection of it is a very narrow view. Indeed, you have become what you are accusing the other person of. A simple rejection of an argument for nothing more than two words. Context is everything. If I had done nothing more than accuse interlocutors of hive mind thinking then you’d be correct. But that’s not what happened where I was used as an example. Hate my arguments and me all you like but I doubt anyone could support a claim that my argument existed solely of saying my opponents were hive mind drones. You are correct I am using “hive mind” to denigrate the opposing viewpoints. That is my viewpoint. I was making an observation. One I would be happy to back-up. Would you feel better if I was more explicit about it then fine…I will be. Happy to call it “group think” or “PC” or “thoughtless” or what have you. You can disagree with me, of course, but of the two of us who is debating in good faith? We can come up with loads of “hive mind” thinking and slight variations on that theme. Five years ago you heard nothing about Mexicans all being rapists. Then Trump mentioned it and doubled down on it and now you have millions who will tell you how Mexicans are all rapists. What about election fraud in the last election? Hell, this goes back ages. How many “witches” were burned because everyone though that was a thing? That is the hive mind. Would you defend the witch burners as thoughtful people and me saying they were a hive mind is dismissive? Hive mind or group think exists. It is a real thing. And if someone is arguing a baseless position such as “the election was stolen” then I feel justified in saying that is the hive mind talking. If you really want good debate then call me out on the “hive mind” thing. Hand waving it away makes you the person you decry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/closing-threads/928063.md?page=5)