# Clothahump, and others... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465 "2016-11-02T18:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/241 "2016-11-06T02:09:38Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > if you can’t be critical of anything your party’s done, or admit any of its failures, how can you in good faith ask the opponent things done wrong that you want to ‘genuinely’ address? > > You can’t. And shouldn’t feign that you could. Because the evidence at hand is nothing the Democrat side done is a wrong, or a disaster. For some odd reason, you keep stating that “Obama’s administration has not been a disaster” = “Democrats can do nothing wrong”. I have no idea why you conflate these two ideas. People are saying the first. Nobody but you has said the second. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/242 "2016-11-06T02:35:21Z")
Why is ACA a disaster? I’m getting insurance for me and my son for under $350 a month, with the tax credit, and we both had pre-existing conditions. I couldn’t afford insurance for my son at all before Obamacare. There were a lot of people worse off than us a few years ago. Now the people in the worst position are those in states that didn’t accept the Medicaid expansion, who earn just too much for Medicaid. ACA could use some tweaking and a public option, maybe Medicare buy-in, but the Republicans in Congress aren’t willing to do anything but dismantle it completely, with apparently no thought for what will replace it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/243 "2016-11-06T02:40:26Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > Why is ACA a disaster? I’m getting insurance for me and my son for under $350 a month, with the tax credit, and we both had pre-existing conditions. I couldn’t afford insurance for my son at all before Obamacare. There were a lot of people worse off than us a few years ago. Now the people in the worst position are those in states that didn’t accept the Medicaid expansion, who earn just too much for Medicaid. > > ACA could use some tweaking and a public option, maybe Medicare buy-in, but the Republicans in Congress aren’t willing to do anything but dismantle it completely, with apparently no thought for what will replace it. They have thought about replacement. And the thought was “Fuck that noise.” I’m sure you realize that you and your son are people that the GOP considers “unworthy” of health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/244 "2016-11-06T02:48:31Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I guess I do. I consider it a failure and a disaster in how it was passed. I also consider those on the left who think it’s sunshine and happiness and all is good with it falling into the trap of the OP - if you can’t be critical of anything your party’s done, or admit any of its failures, how can you in good faith ask the opponent things done wrong that you want to ‘genuinely’ address? I’d make a distinction between passing a bill into law, and the consequences which may happen years or decades later. I mean, there was all sorts of talk about how the Affordable Care Act would lead to death panels and rationing of care. Now, as far as I’m aware, neither of those things has happened yet. You may still think that they’re going to happen, but I don’t think it’s fair to call it a disaster until they actually do. Are there any bad things about the ACA that have actually happened to make you call it a disaster, or is it just a disaster because of events that you think are still to come? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/245 "2016-11-06T07:57:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The election of Ronald Reagan occurred on Carter’s watch, so I gueess that counts. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I have have a feeling you really believe that. Why wouldn’t I believe it? That Ronald Reagan’s presidency was the worst to date is an objective, inarguable fact. And, as is my policy with inarguable facts, I don’t propose to argue about it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/246 "2016-11-06T11:39:50Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > This makes NO sense to me, and frankly seems like a symptom of everything that is wrong. Maybe there is just a significant chunk of people that do not care what the truth is, and they are completely willing to swallow whatever they are told because it fits their narrative. But don’t people even care about the truth? like at all? To a substantial extent many Trump supporters simply won’t know any better. An amazing number of people now get all their news from their facebook feed. Facebook feeds are self narrowing as you would know, and only feed you what you like. Not only that but many of those who do go beyond facebook would only go as far as Faux News and similar partisan outlets. I never “like” political items in my facebook feed but nonetheless as a consequence of having friends with similar views to my own, without exception political articles to my facebook feed are anti-Trump. I think many Trump supporters would have no knowledge at all that much of what Trump says is lies, or that there is another side to the story about many anti-Clinton talking points. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/247 "2016-11-06T11:50:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Actually, that was a major complaint of the ACA. That it didn’t go far enought You had the presidency and both houses. You could have done and passed anything you wanted. You passed what you passed. Saying now it should have been this it should have been that is again lame beyond belief. But it keeps you blameless which is all that counts. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/248 "2016-11-06T11:59:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are there any bad things about the ACA that have actually happened to make you call it a disaster, or is it just a disaster because of events that you think are still to come? Both. I was lied to on what it’d accomplish and what I could expect if it were passed. I’m covered less now than I’ve ever been and I’m paying more for it. Every estimate I read says I’m going to pay more each year going forward (as parts kick in that were meant to kick in under a different person than the one who pushed and passed the law - blatant passing the blame/buck). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/249 "2016-11-06T12:08:11Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Every estimate I read says I’m going to pay more each year going forward… And how is that different from what would have happened without the ACA? [At least it is going up slower.](http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/) ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/250 "2016-11-06T12:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=Euphonious Polemic;19755531"] Obama’s administration has not been a disaster" = “Democrats can do nothing wrong”. I have no idea why you conflate these two ideas. People are saying the first. Nobody but you has said the second. [/QUOTE] The only disaster that Democrats are responsible for that’s been mentioned is Vietnam. How you think I think that’s Obama’s fault is anyone’s guess. The ACA which everyone on the left agrees to is great and awesome and nothing close to being a disaster (except that it didn’t go far enough) isn’t even remotely considered a disaster by the left. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/251 "2016-11-06T12:35:48Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > The only disaster that Democrats are responsible for that’s been mentioned is Vietnam. How you think I think that’s Obama’s fault is anyone’s guess. > > The ACA which everyone on the left agrees to is great and awesome and nothing close to being a disaster (except that it didn’t go far enough) isn’t even remotely considered a disaster by the left. Because millions now have insurance that wouldn’t have otherwise, and costs would have gone up with our without the ACA. More needs to be done to bring cost down and eliminate gaps in coverage, but it’s been very positive in general. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/252 "2016-11-06T12:51:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because millions now have insurance that wouldn’t have otherwise, and costs would have gone up with our without the ACA. More needs to be done to bring cost down and eliminate gaps in coverage, but it’s been very positive in general. Another Democrat success. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/253 "2016-11-06T12:54:33Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Another Democrat success. Do you mean a Democratic success? If so, I agree, but it’s not the end of the line – it still needs improvement. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/254 "2016-11-06T12:58:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you mean a Democratic success? If so, I agree, but it’s not the end of the line – it still needs improvement. No part of it was a disaster. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/255 "2016-11-06T13:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you mean a Democratic success? If so, I agree, but it’s not the end of the line – it still needs improvement. keep in mind the “plan” they want to replace it with: don’t get sick and if you do, die fast. we need single payer, of course. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/256 "2016-11-06T13:39:47Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No part of it was a disaster. Got it! “Disaster” is editorializing. I think there are things that should be improved, but overall I think it’s the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/257 "2016-11-06T13:53:47Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > we need single payer, of course. You should have passed it when you had the chance. How come you didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/258 "2016-11-06T13:58:03Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > You should have passed it when you had the chance. How come you didn’t? _raises hand_ Because **JackieLikesVariety** is not a sitting member of Congress? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/259 "2016-11-06T13:59:07Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No part of it was a disaster. Got it! Point out the part(s) that you consider to be a disaster. Explain your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/260 "2016-11-06T15:08:20Z")
Certain Republicans have been wiping tears of rage from their cheeks ever since the poor and unemployed were given a chance to have health insurance. This is most likely due to the violation of Jesus’ teaching of “Fuck The Poor”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465.md?page=14)