# Clothahump, and others... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465 "2016-11-02T18:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/281 "2016-11-07T04:02:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Your eyes must be better than mine. I was there when that picture was taken, you weren’t. Can you please point out to me where I am being hit in the head with a stick? Sorry, was she going for your nuts? My mistake, I naturally assumed head trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/282 "2016-11-07T04:05:41Z")
Do you make noises like _Kssh!_ Vwum! Vwum! _Fa-kssh_? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/283 "2016-11-07T04:09:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you mean a Democratic success? If so, I agree, but it’s not the end of the line – it still needs improvement. Lots of things need improvement. Before ACA a lot of people had nothing, and some want to go back to that (until THEY need it I bet). Meanwhile, don’t let “perfect” be the enemy of “good”. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/284 "2016-11-07T04:25:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It should be ripped out by the roots and burned. What should replace it? Nothing. There is no provision in the Constitution for the government to provide health insurance, nor to mandate that people have health insurance. Having health insurance is the responsibility of the person, not the government. And what of the people who need care but aren’t privileged enough to pay? They just supposed to go without, including the subset who will die from shit that could’ve easily been treated? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/285 "2016-11-07T04:28:18Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I am guessing you are not in a position where pre-existing conditions means you cannot have gotten insurance at ANY price prior to the ACA. He basically said those people can go die. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/286 "2016-11-07T06:13:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That’s because the left lives in a socialist utopian dreamworld, full of unicorns that fart rainbows. Yes, just like every person living in: [ul] [li]Great Britain[/li][li]Canada[/li][li]Germany[/li][li]France[/li][li]Israel[/li][li]The Netherlands[/li][li]United Arab Emirates[/li][li]Austria[/li][li]Belgium[/li][li]Japan[/ul][/li] …And dozens more. All of them live in a bizarre fantasy world wherein the government providing for their healthcare is a thing. Worse yet, they’ve all somehow come to the counterintuitive conclusion that this is somehow less expensive and more cost-effective than having individual citizens bargain with huge corporations for medicine they need to not die. Those lala-land Europeans/Asians/Arabs/Jews/etcs are so deluded, they think that an epi-pen should cost like 70€ instead of $600, and bizarrely they think the government just _regulating_ how much can be paid for them will get that job done! Those sad, deluded cloudcuckoolanders. I’m sure that you, as a red-blooded, completely sane American Republican can set them straight on why your system, which involves a whole lot of letting poor people die of treatable and preventable diseases and people going into irreparable debt, is a _much_ better system. Also source on your image or I’m calling bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/287 "2016-11-07T10:56:42Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You’re not concerned about her stupidity/arrogance in doing this in the first place? You’re not concerned about the fact that she did it deliberately to avoid FOIA requests? You keep saying this, so I’m sure you can provide evidence that “she did it deliberately to avoid FOIA requests”. We’ll wait. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The supermajority at the beginning of Obama’s first term was squandered, but I probably wouldn’t label that a disaster. It’s worth remembering that between Franken’s delayed seating and Kennedy’s death, the Democrats had a supermajority for about seven months including summer and Christmas recesses. They did pretty well with the time they had. As for “why they didn’t pass single payer when they had the chance”, they never had the chance. The Blue Dogs (and in particular Ben “I need the support of all those insurance companies in Omaha” Nelson) refused to go any further than the eventual bill went. Given that presidents have been trying to reform the healthcare system since Teddy Roosevelt, getting _anything_ passed is a major achievement. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Whatever definition the poster is relying on for ‘disaster’ apparently can’t include a Democrat. Thus anything a Republican says is a Democrat disaster he can brush away and dismiss as not being a ‘disaster’ and continue his nonsense game. > > Sad little game by a sad little mind. This game is RIGGED! You wouldn’t believe how bigly this game is rigged. Sad. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > For some odd reason, you keep stating that > > “Obama’s administration has not been a disaster” = “Democrats can do nothing wrong”. > > I have no idea why you conflate these two ideas. People are saying the first. Nobody but you has said the second. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you mean a Democratic success? If so, I agree, but it’s not the end of the line – it still needs improvement. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No part of it was a disaster. Got it! So thus far you’ve complained that we’re acting in bad faith, and then on two occasions blatantly shifted the position of the person you were responding to to an extreme version they didn’t state or hold. One might think from such behaviors that you’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/288 "2016-11-07T13:31:29Z")
Typical Derp Wing Republicans though. There is only Black and White. There are only Extremes. If you’re not a saint, you must be Satan. If you’re not on their side, all bad things in the Universe must be laid at your feet. If the Republicans don’t support it, it must be the most evil thing ever. Evidence? Facts? _pfft_ We’re in the Post-Truth world now. We get to make up what we think is the truth. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/289 "2016-11-07T13:41:47Z")
The thing with the health insurance is that companies used to be able to use it to insure/enforce employee loyalty: you have to keep your job there to keep your insurance and not worry about getting hit with that pre-existing condition penalty for whatever. Put insurance management into the hands of government and you take that leverage away from employers. That is just unfair. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/290 "2016-11-07T13:55:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The thing with the health insurance is that companies used to be able to use it to insure/enforce employee loyalty: you have to keep your job there to keep your insurance and not worry about getting hit with that pre-existing condition penalty for whatever. Put insurance management into the hands of government and you take that leverage away from employers. That is just unfair. Loyalty??? Anyone who feels loyal to a corporation is a sucker. “Your” job will go to China or some other country and all the money will be “offshored” or go as a bonus to the guys who canned you. Loyalty? Expecting loyalty from a company is a sucker’s bet. Millennials have figured that out, and companies don’t know how to control someone who will jump at the next better offer. The fact that their lack of loyalty is being reciprocated now, freaks them out. They can’t pull the old “be glad you have a job at all” crap on Millennials. And they can’t stand it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/291 "2016-11-07T14:05:38Z")
Back in the early 90’s my boss (long listed as Worst Boss Ever, now #2 on my list) pulled us into his office one at a time to ask us to work 50 hours per week just to show our loyalty and dedication. I replied “25% more hours, 25% more pay”. He asked where my loyalty to the company was. I replied “Where is this company’s loyalty to me?”. He went :eek: for about 3 seconds, then just replied “good point” and didn’t ask me again. My father used to be all over me because I tended to change jobs every 2-3 years and the longest I was anywhere was 6 years from 1985-1991. Then he lost life-long job and learned that the jobs he was able to get were usually only good for 1-3 years before the project was over, he got laid off, or it was just time to move on. It is the same for the majority of people I know. Sure, there are people who keep their jobs for 25+ years. My team lead is one of those - but he’s changed positions repeatedly over those 25 years with the same company. Health Insurance needs to be divorced from Corporate America. We need to be able to get and keep insurance regardless of employment status. If not for reasons of mobility and want, but also for reasons of leverage. I’ve been in a situation of needing medical care and having my employer threaten me over it. As in - ‘you’re not taking any more time off to see the doctor or you’ll be fired and lose your insurance’ Fuck that noise. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/292 "2016-11-07T14:26:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > . . . > > Health Insurance needs to be divorced from Corporate America. We need to be able to get and keep insurance regardless of employment status. If not for reasons of mobility and want, but also for reasons of leverage. I’ve been in a situation of needing medical care and having my employer threaten me over it. As in - ‘you’re not taking any more time off to see the doctor or you’ll be fired and lose your insurance’ Fuck that noise. Agreed, with an additional level that health insurance should not be a profit center. It should exist to pay health providers what they deserve regardless of the financial status of a patient but should not otherwise generate more than cost of administration. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/293 "2016-11-07T15:51:14Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > What state was this from? FWIW, the original is from a server located in California. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/294 "2016-11-07T16:00:24Z")
'Course, that’s just for the [blogspot.com](http://blogspot.com) and “Stilton Jarlsberg” could be anywhere in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/295 "2016-11-07T19:25:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nothing. There is no provision in the Constitution for the government to provide health insurance, nor to mandate that people have health insurance. Having health insurance is the responsibility of the person, not the government. By that argument you shouldn’t have an air force, either. People should pay for their own bombers. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/296 "2016-11-07T22:06:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The thing with the health insurance is that companies used to be able to use it to insure/enforce employee loyalty: you have to keep your job there to keep your insurance and not worry about getting hit with that pre-existing condition penalty for whatever. Put insurance management into the hands of government and you take that leverage away from employers. That is just unfair. I’ve never run into employer based coverage that refused people for pre-existing conditions, and COBRA didn’t either. You were screwed if COBRA ran out or if you couldn’t afford it, or got a condition before getting insurance. However ACA is great at covering people going into startups that will take longer than 18 months and which aren’t going to be able to afford a good insurance plan. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/297 "2016-11-07T22:08:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Loyalty??? Anyone who feels loyal to a corporation is a sucker. “Your” job will go to China or some other country and all the money will be “offshored” or go as a bonus to the guys who canned you. > > Loyalty? Expecting loyalty from a company is a sucker’s bet. Millennials have figured that out, and companies don’t know how to control someone who will jump at the next better offer. The fact that their lack of loyalty is being reciprocated now, freaks them out. They can’t pull the old “be glad you have a job at all” crap on Millennials. And they can’t stand it. I’ve worked for big companies, and they went from loyalty to everyone is responsible for their career at least 20 years ago. They don’t even pretend to do anything to merit loyalty, just like airlines no longer pretend to be doing anything for your comfort. Unless you are an exec/in first class of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/298 "2016-11-07T22:33:57Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > By that argument you shouldn’t have an air force, either. People should pay for their own bombers. Eh, these same people are keen to avoid addressing the fact that in 1798, Congress required sailors to pay for insurance and that it was essentially government collected and disbursed. \*Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the first day of September next, the master or owner of every ship or vessel of the United States, arriving from a foreign port into any port of the United States, shall, before such ship or vessel shall be admitted to an entry, render to the collector a true account of the number of seamen, that shall have been employed on board such vessel since she was last entered at any port in the United States,–and shall pay to the said collector, at the rate of twenty cents per month for every seaman so employed; which sum he is hereby authorized to retain out of the wages of such seamen. Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That from and after the first day of September next, no collector shall grant to any ship or vessel whose enrolment or license for carrying on the coasting trade has expired, a new enrolment or license before the master of such ship or vessel shaH first render a true account to the collector, of the number of seamen, and the time they have severally been employed on board such ship or vessel, during the continuance of the license which has so expired, and pay to such collector twenty cents per month for every month such seamen have been severally employed, as aforesaid; which sum the said master is hereby authorized to retain out of the wages of such seamen. And if any such master shall render a false account of the number of men, and the length of time they have severally been employed, as is herein required, he shall forfeit and pay one hundred dollars. Sec. 3. And be it further enacted, That it shall be the duty of the several collectors to make a quarterly return of the sums collected by them, respectively, by virtue of this act, to the Secretary of the Treasury; and the President of the United States is hereby authorized, out of the same, to provide for the temporary relief and maintenance of sick or disabJed seamen, in the hospitals or other proper institutions now established in the several ports of the United States, or, in ports where no such institutions exist, then in such other manner as he shall direct: Provided, that the monies collected in anyone district, shall be expended within the same.\* ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/299 "2016-11-08T01:00:51Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > There is no provision in the Constitution for the government to provide health insurance, nor to mandate that people have health insurance. Having health insurance is the responsibility of the person, not the government. > [@Penfeather](#): > > By that argument you shouldn’t have an air force, either. People should pay for their own bombers. Well, Penfeather, I am sure clothy can argue that the “Provide for the Common Defense” words in the Preamble will cover the Air Force question. Of course, then he has to explain why “Promote the General Welfare” can’t include something like single-payer health…which I am sure he can do, given his prowess at mental gymnastics… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465/300 "2016-11-08T01:15:20Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Well, Penfeather, I am sure clothy can argue that the “Provide for the Common Defense” words in the Preamble will cover the Air Force question. > > Of course, then he has to explain why “Promote the General Welfare” can’t include something like single-payer health…which I am sure he can do, given his prowess at mental gymnastics… I’m surprised he didn’t misinterpret the “Welfare” part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clothahump-and-others/770465.md?page=16)