# Clouds in my coffee? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [November 9, 2001, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376 "2001-11-09T05:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shame\_s\_Joys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Shame\_s\_Joys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shame_s_Joys)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/1 "2001-11-09T05:50:17Z")
Way back when, Carly Simon sang _I had some dreams. They were clouds in my coffee. Clouds in my coffee and … YOU’RE SO VAIN_ I never got what that was supposed to mean. Was this some kind of druggy dope reference? Knowing that the song was supposedly aimed at Mick Jagger does nothing to enlighten me about those coffee cloud dreams. Y’know, a lot of songs in the late 60s and early 70s had obscure lyrics. Guess you had to be there… Wait a second … it wasn’t “Clowns in my coffee,” was it? That would make about as much sense. No, guess not. All right, send in the clouds… ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/2 "2001-11-09T06:19:21Z")
I always thought it was “clowns in my coffee”, but that’s only because I think that’s much funnier than clouds. I don’t know what it actually is, though. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/3 "2001-11-09T06:22:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Knowing that the song was supposedly aimed at Mick Jagger does nothing to enlighten me about those coffee cloud dreams. Really? I always heard the song was about Warren Beatty… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/4 "2001-11-09T06:39:36Z")
You’re right … you had to be there. I just pictured Carly stoned. And acid tripping at the same time. She has a cup of coffee in front of her. She pours in a little cream. She stares intently through widely dilated pupils as the cream makes ghostly pale billows in the dark clear coffee, swirling in swiftly shifting chaotic shapes, rising like cumulus thunderheads before a summer storm. _Oh wowww, maaannnnn… Oh woooowwwwwww…_ She is profoundly impressed. Thinks, _This is too freaky cool, man. I gotta put this in a song…_ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/5 "2001-11-09T06:51:09Z")
Hmm, seems that the Cloudmistress herself has spoken: > [@](#): > > “clouds in my coffee” are the confusing aspects of life and love. That which you can’t see through, and yet seems alluring…until. Like a mirage that turns into a dry patch. Perhaps there is something in the bottom of the coffee cup that you could read if you could (like tea leaves or coffee grinds). Carly Simon 5/16/01 I still prefer my own hypothesis as it makes marginally more sense to me… ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/6 "2001-11-09T06:58:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shame’s Joys \* > **Knowing that the song was supposedly aimed at Mick Jagger does nothing to enlighten me about those coffee cloud dreams.** That makes Jagger kind of cool, because he’s singing backup on the track. And if you really [want to know](http://www.carlysimon.com/vain/vain.htm) this will make you none the wiser. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/7 "2001-11-09T08:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > still prefer my own hypothesis as it makes marginally more sense to me… \*\* Only marginally? Your version makes sense, her’s doesn’t. Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/8 "2001-11-11T03:49:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*She is profoundly impressed. Thinks, _This is too freaky cool, man. I gotta put this in a song…_ \*\* You aren’t too far off there, actually. Like many writers and songwriters, Carly Simon jots down ideas/lyrics that come to her during the course of everyday life, and then consults her notes when she’s working on songs. IIRC, the “clouds in my coffee” bit came to her while on an airplane (clouds outside the plane reflected in her coffee cup) and only later did she work into a song – at which point it took on the meaning she explains in the quotation you gave us (though not very coherently there): I had some dreams for my life and my romance, but like clouds in a coffee cup (reflected or cream-billows) they only obscured the truth that was waiting for me there at the bottom/end. So yeah, it was one of those “wow, that’s a cool turn of phrase, should use it in a song”, though I can’t vouch for the acid trip. 😉 I also cannot provide a reference for this info right now, but I’d be happy to track it down if you really need to know. By the way, Carly has _never_ said who the subject of the song is. Mick Jagger sings back-up vocals because he happened to be in the recording studio down the hall at the time, and when invited said, “Sure, what the heck?” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/9 "2001-11-11T04:52:56Z")
I’d just like to say that “Clowns In My Coffee” would make a great name for a band. Thank you, and good night. ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/10 "2001-11-11T15:31:47Z")
The following is an excerpt from an interview with Carly Simon, conducted by Steve Morse of the _Boston Globe_ and included in the booklet/notes for Carly’s 3-CD collection _Clouds in My Coffee 1965-1995_: > [@](#): > > “I had some dreams, they were clouds in my coffee,” Simon sings out loud as she plays gracious host in her Vineyard kitchen. "It came from an airplane flight that I took with Billy Mernit, who was my friend and piano player at the time. As I got my coffee, there were clouds outside the window of the airplane and you could see the reflection in the cup of coffee. Billy said to me, ‘Look at the clouds in your coffee. That’s like a Truffaut shot!’ I said, ‘Hmmm, clouds in my coffee?’ And I wrote that down in my book. Other lyrics in that song were gathered in the same way. In this same interview, she says that the man in the song is a composite, but “Warren [Beatty] loves that people think it’s about him.” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/11 "2001-11-11T22:12:16Z")
I’ve always heard that the man in the song is James Taylor. The story goes that after they divorced she made the talk show circuits complaining about how he didn’t want her to have a career and was jealous of her talents, and that she wrote the song once they divorced to express her frustrations with him. Don’t know how true it is or not, just what I’ve heard for as long as I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/12 "2001-11-11T22:30:26Z")
Tuckerfan writes: \> I’ve always heard that the man in the song is James \> Taylor. It’s useful to check if the dates of some explanation fit before posting. The song “You’re So Vain” came out in 1972. Simon married Taylor in late 1972, and the marriage broke up in 1981. So this story claims that the song was inspired by the break-up of a marriage that hadn’t even started yet when it was written. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/13 "2001-11-12T00:11:02Z")
I prefer to think it’s Warren Beatty because I think he’s icky. I can just see him walking into a party like he’s walking on to a yacht… He’s definitely so vain! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/14 "2001-11-12T00:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*Tuckerfan writes: > > \> I’ve always heard that the man in the song is James > \> Taylor. > > It’s useful to check if the dates of some explanation fit before posting. The song “You’re So Vain” came out in 1972. Simon married Taylor in late 1972, and the marriage broke up in 1981. So this story claims that the song was inspired by the break-up of a marriage that hadn’t even started yet when it was written. \*\* Hey, I made no claims that it was true, just what I’d been told by lots of people over the years. Besides, why should we let anything like facts ruin a good story ;)? ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/15 "2001-11-12T01:01:36Z")
The lyric, “you walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht”, was yet another inspired by a totally innocent bystander in an unrelated situation. She wrote this idea down and used it later when writing “You’re so Vain”. Carly says this in the aforementioned interview. That’s not to say it _couldn’t_ refer to Warren Beatty. The point is that we have to be careful about applying her lyrics too literally to any one person. It’s an idea, a picture that fits the song and the sense she was trying to convey; she wasn’t painting an exact portrait of one specific person. I mean, this is why I’ve always loved that song; it’s so ironic. “You’re so vain – you prob’ly think this song is about you, don’t you?” And is it? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/16 "2001-11-12T02:18:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MJH2 \* > **It’s an idea, a picture that fits the song and the sense she was trying to convey; she wasn’t painting an exact portrait of one specific person.** How do you know this? It may well be about one specific person. The exact words she used in the song may be from other sources, but the song itself could be about one specific person. ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/17 "2001-11-12T14:12:21Z")
**Green Bean** , I “know” this because in the Steve Morse interview I quoted earlier, Carly Simon herself says that the person in the song is a composite picture of different men, not the image of one man in particular. Straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/18 "2001-11-12T18:36:27Z")
:o Sorry, I missed that. :o ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clouds-in-my-coffee/92376/19 "2001-11-12T19:04:47Z")
'S’alright, **Green Bean** … my statement of course rests on the assumption that Carly is telling the truth about the song, that she did not decide to keep the song’s target a secret once she realized the fervor a little mystery would bring to it! That’s why I wrote it as “know”, since I am only going on her word.