# Clubber Lang vs Ivan Drago **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586 "2013-02-07T13:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/21 "2013-02-07T18:38:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can probably find footage of the fight online. If anyone else is curious: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jvCHk_kKpVI/hqdefault.jpg "Jack Dempsey and Jess Willard- The Worst Beating in Boxing History - W/ Commentary") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvCHk_kKpVI) Just hideous. Plaster or no, that was the worst beating I’ve seen. From 2:40 mark until the end of the 1st is just brutal. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/22 "2013-02-07T20:41:28Z")
This reminds me of an issue I thought was weird with the movie. I haven’t seen it in like 15 years, so maybe I misremember the details, but wasn’t the basic theme of the movie that Drago was the Soviet who used science and technology and just perfect human specimens, and that they were all somehow beaten by down home country wisdom or something? I mean, Drago with a team of scientists with clipboards watching him train, vs rocky dragging things through the snow. It’s a weird message. Was there some sort of perception in the 80s that the Soviets were the more advanced, science-oriented of the powers, and that we had to beat them with down home american country wisdom or something? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/23 "2013-02-07T20:45:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Was there some sort of perception in the 80s that the Soviets were the more advanced, science-oriented of the powers, and that we had to beat them with down home american country wisdom or something? I think it was supposed to represent the Soviets as heartless and robotic, juxtaposed with Rocky’s more natural, organic training approach. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/24 "2013-02-07T20:48:23Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > The only answer is Thunder Lips. I’ve been meaning to start thread about Thunderlips. He was clearly the biggest badass of all Rocky opponents. It took Rocky punching him _bare fisted_ to bring him down, and Thunderlips may have even faked going down. But we know Rocky wasn’t faking, he was too dumb to know it was an act. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/25 "2013-02-07T21:48:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This reminds me of an issue I thought was weird with the movie. I haven’t seen it in like 15 years, so maybe I misremember the details, but wasn’t the basic theme of the movie that Drago was the Soviet who used science and technology and just perfect human specimens, and that they were all somehow beaten by down home country wisdom or something? I mean, Drago with a team of scientists with clipboards watching him train, vs rocky dragging things through the snow. It’s a weird message. Was there some sort of perception in the 80s that the Soviets were the more advanced, science-oriented of the powers, and that we had to beat them with down home american country wisdom or something? It was kind of like that. The Soviets represented a controlling society, Drago was born and raised to be a machine like fighter, while Rocky was driven by emotion. The whole Rocky thing had really gone off the deep end by then anyway, so there’s no reason to think there was was much sense behind it. I think the typical image then of a Soviet athlete was someone who used PEDs and was supported by the government. However there weren’t really any notable Russian professional boxers at the time. Perhaps he was modeled a bit after the Cuban fighter Teofilo Stevenson who dominated the heavyweight division in amateur athletic boxing. But I think it was more of a twist on the old John Henry vs. The Steam Drill thing again. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/26 "2013-02-07T21:56:08Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I’ve been meaning to start thread about Thunderlips. He was clearly the biggest badass of all Rocky opponents. It took Rocky punching him _bare fisted_ to bring him down, and Thunderlips may have even faked going down. But we know Rocky wasn’t faking, he was too dumb to know it was an act. Umm, you realize he was supposed to be a professional wrestler right? The whole boxer vs. wrestler thing had been done before in real life when Ali fought Antonio Inoki in a mixed boxer vs. wrestler match. Most boring fight of any kind I’ve ever seen, and ended the way I predicted then, in a draw, because neither man was interested in letting the other use his expertise. A more amusing version was Chuck Wepner vs. Andre the Giant. That should be online somewhere. Wepner was the real Rocky that Stallone based the original movie on. He just wanted the boxer (him) to come out on top this time. He launched the careers of Hulk Hogan and Mr. T with that movie. He should have been jailed for that. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/27 "2013-02-07T22:36:23Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > If anyone else is curious: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvCHk\_kKpVI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvCHk_kKpVI) > > Just hideous. Plaster or no, that was the worst beating I’ve seen. > > From 2:40 mark until the end of the 1st is just brutal. Oh my. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/28 "2013-02-08T01:32:25Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > It’s interesting looking at the evolution of Rocky’s opponents from the smooth, Ali-like Apollo . . . Apollo Creed is one of my all-time favorite recurring characters from a movie franchise. Carl Weathers created some genuine awesomeness. > [@phreesh](#): > > Hijack - I just watched Rocky again first the first time in a long time and man, is the boxing terrible. So over the top offensive (nobody defends and they hardly ever miss their punches) with no pretense of reality. -End hijack restart hijack - I’ve just recently been rewatching them all. I found the Bluray boxed set of all 6 films for under $20 so I scooped it up. There are plenty of missed punches throughout all the fights. What is most striking to me is that Rocky seems to have developed a technique of blocking punches with his face. I’ve never really watched real boxing, but to my uninformed eye it seems like a bad idea for a boxer to use his face to block his opponents punches. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/29 "2013-02-08T02:19:59Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > There are plenty of missed punches throughout all the fights. What is most striking to me is that Rocky seems to have developed a technique of blocking punches with his face. I’ve never really watched real boxing, but to my uninformed eye it seems like a bad idea for a boxer to use his face to block his opponents punches. Sadly it was the technique all to often used by [Chuck ‘The Bayonne Bleeder’ Wepner](http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/11/19/1226200/106926-chuck-wepner.jpg), the boxer that inspired the movie Rocky. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/30 "2013-02-08T03:08:08Z")
And Drago was on steroids, wasn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/31 "2013-02-08T03:23:01Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > It made a great movie, but since we’re pretending that these boxers are real, did Rocky actually stand a chance against Drago? I’d think so. Obviously, there have been really successful tall boxers and arms reach definitely matters in boxing, but as a rule, once you’re over a certain height, it can be a disadvantage because it makes it quite quite easy to get inside your reach and to do a number on your ribs and stomach area. There’s a saying in boxing. “Kill the body, the head will follow.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/32 "2013-02-08T03:27:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’d think so. > > Obviously, there have been really successful tall boxers and arms reach definitely matters in boxing, but as a rule, once you’re over a certain height, it can be a disadvantage because it makes it quite quite easy to get inside your reach and to do a number on your ribs and stomach area. > > There’s a saying in boxing. “Kill the body, the head will follow.” Height is never a disadvantage in boxing. Lack of skill is a disadvantage no matter how tall you are. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/33 "2013-02-08T05:37:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Umm, you realize he was supposed to be a professional wrestler right? Of course. What part of my post do you think that contradicts? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/34 "2013-02-08T06:00:36Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Of course. What part of my post do you think that contradicts? Well, the badass part and how it took so many punches to put him down. But I guess I didn’t catch your intent right. Sorry about that. Feel free to misinterpret one of my posts in exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/35 "2013-02-08T07:10:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > And Drago was on steroids, wasn’t he? Yes he was, which is why I picked him over Lang. Otherwise I think Lang would win. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/36 "2013-02-08T08:36:41Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I’ve been meaning to start thread about Thunderlips. He was clearly the biggest badass of all Rocky opponents. It took Rocky punching him _bare fisted_ to bring him down, and Thunderlips may have even faked going down. But we know Rocky wasn’t faking, he was too dumb to know it was an act. Yeah. . .no. Rocky wasn’t too dumb to realize it was an act, Rocky THOUGHT it was going to be an act and Thunderhogan beat the crap out of him. If Rocky was dumb here, it was him thinking it was an exhibition and Hoganlips was going to play nice. Just ‘cause Thunderlips didn’t take it personally afterwards doesn’t mean it was all an act. Clearly they had planned nothing in advance, and Rocky was spitballin’ ideas just before Lips O’Thunder brought the boom. There’s nothing at all to suggest that Hogan faked going down. Even if he did, Rocky got his bell rung earlier and was fighting for his life throughout the fight. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/37 "2013-02-08T11:07:47Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Just ‘cause Thunderlips didn’t take it personally afterwards doesn’t mean it was all an act. Clearly they had planned nothing in advance, and Rocky was spitballin’ ideas just before Lips O’Thunder brought the boom. There’s nothing at all to suggest that Hogan faked going down. Even if he did, Rocky got his bell rung earlier and was fighting for his life throughout the fight. I think there’s plenty to imply that Thunderlips was just putting on an act. In their bit of post-fight dialog, Rocky even asks him why he went nuts and Thunderlips replies something to the effect “You gotta give the people a good show!” There are various levels of fake-ness in staged professional wrestling. It’s all theatrics, the outcome is predetermined, the wrestlers put on a show when “selling” the pain being inflicted upon them but at some levels of “fake” there are full contact blows, even if not full strength- and being bodyslammed _hurts_ no matter how fake it is. At some levels of “fake” only the outcome is determined but the choreography is improvised- the two fighters being experienced enough to just go with it. Rocky had no experience in fake fights while Thunderlips was fully experienced in fake fights. I think it’s entirely plausible that Thunderlips came out with the full intention of inflicting a bit of pain on Rocky then once Rocky had been pushed to retaliate Thunderlips professionally “sold” Rocky’s triumph. Personally, I think Rocky was a true fish out of water for that fight and that Thunderlips was in complete control all the way through his defeat. For a ficitonal work, I find this entirely within the realm of suspension of disbelief. In real life, yes, Thunderlips would have let Rocky in on the whole thing ahead of time but the movie’s divergence from this real life expectation is really only a minor divergence and it made for much better dramatic effect to have Rocky completely taken by surprise and clueless throughout. Even as a kid, I took the bit of post-fight dialog as confirmation that Thunderlips was in control the whole time. Incidentally, though _Rocky III_ pales in comparison to the first two movies in terms of being a genuinely decent film, the Thunderlips sequence has one of my all time favorite moments from all of the Rocky franchise: (All dialog is approximated from memory) _Rocky and Mick are eyeing Thunderlips, sizing him up._ _ANNOUNCER:_ “And in this corner, from Philadelphia Pennsylvania . . .” _ROCKY (to Mick):_ “What do you think he eats?” _MICK:_ “About 202 pounds.” _ANNOUNCER:_ “. . . weighing in at 202 pounds, the World Heavyweight Champion, Rocky Balboa!” I just LOVE that moment, the comic timing is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/38 "2013-02-08T11:40:21Z")
My favorite line from that fight is when Rocky crosses himself just before the bell, and Mick (Goldmill) mutters to himself, “I get _noivous_ every time he does that!” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/39 "2013-02-08T14:14:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Was there some sort of perception in the 80s that the Soviets were the more advanced, science-oriented of the powers, and that we had to beat them with down home american country wisdom or something? I think it was less about building up the Soviets as masterminds than it was about the Triumph of American Exceptionalism and how the Pure Spirit of Liberty can overcome any odds, even quasi-robotic Soviet death monsters. Naturally, you can’t showcase the Victory of the American Spirit without some sort of overwhelming odds, hence the building up of Drago and you certainly couldn’t have Drago get so huge and fierce via the Triumph of Soviet Exceptionalism so it had to be near-cheating via cold, heartless, sterile science. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586/40 "2013-02-08T14:17:45Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Ivan Drago, on the other hand, takes Rocky the full fifteen rounds- and that’s after Rocky’s most severe and dedicated training ever. > > Clubber Lang is fierce and he is relentless but he’s not all that skilled a boxer. His success is founded upon his brutality but he needs the quick victories that he has become accustomed to. He’s gotten used to knocking his opponents out in two or three rounds, he’s not forward thinking enough to maneuver through a lengthy bout. For bonus points in a comparison with Lang, note that Drago is at his best at the start. It’s not just that he can be expected to get the Rocky-style win if Lang can’t keep up in later rounds, but could get outpaced in Round 1 or Round 2; it’s that Drago charges out of the gate to spend Round 1 and Round 2 throwing steroid-fueled punches that leave the other guy (a) repeatedly knocked down and seeing triple, or (b) dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clubber-lang-vs-ivan-drago/649586.md?page=3)