# Clutch questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2019, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825 "2019-02-02T08:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/41 "2019-02-05T04:31:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Really??? I am surprised. Do that many people really start from second? I can’t think of a single person I’ve observed doing so. The only case for starting from second is when you don’t want to spin the wheels. While it’s not difficult, it does require a little more feel than starting from first, so I’m surprised there’s a significant amount of folks who do this regularly. My partner does this all the time. I don’t know why he does it, he just does. Thanks, **HoneyBadger,** I think that might be why we are having trouble so often. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/42 "2019-02-05T05:01:24Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > My partner does this all the time. I don’t know why he does it, he just does. > > Thanks, **HoneyBadger,** I think that might be why we are having trouble so often. Yeah, I’m curious as to what the rationale is. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/43 "2019-02-05T12:33:39Z")
“Dad always did it that way,” kind of like the wife trimming the end off of the pot roast story. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/44 "2019-02-05T13:38:40Z")
FWIW, I almost always stared in 2nd with my F-350, 7.3l Powerstroke diesel. First was just too damn low - top speed of maybe 5 mph. I had over 200,000 miles on the original clutch when I got rid of the truck. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/45 "2019-02-05T14:37:06Z")
I assume the problems from starting in second (massive diesel trucks aside, where first is probably designed for hauling a boat up a slipway or pulling a 6-foot tree stump) will be from people slipping the clutch in order to do so (on the flat or a slight uphill), rather than those letting the car roll a little way downhill before engaging the clutch in second. Related question: occasionally I will stop on a downhill and switch the engine off if I know it’s likely to be more than a 20 second wait (I don’t have stop-start technology). To get going again I might let the car roll forward, then raise the clutch in second to jump start the engine. This avoids load on the starter and battery, but does it in turn cause more wear on the transmission than is wise? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/46 "2019-02-05T17:43:46Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Keeping the transmission in gear and the clutch pushed in while the car is stopped means the clutch is slipping. Theoretically there’s zero torque being transmitted, but it’s not perfectly zero: there is still contact between the friction material and the pressure plates, so there will be wear and heat generation. Wear on clutch friction material should be at about zero (assuming there are no clearance issues, and if there are that should be fixed), much like there are on brake pads while driving with the foot off the brakes. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Related question: occasionally I will stop on a downhill and switch the engine off if I know it’s likely to be more than a 20 second wait (I don’t have stop-start technology). To get going again I might let the car roll forward, then raise the clutch in second to jump start the engine. This avoids load on the starter and battery, but does it in turn cause more wear on the transmission than is wise? It depends how properly matched your vehicle speed is to the gear you are popping your clutch in. IME, people that have to roll start an engine do so with the vehicle bucking as it starts- that imbalance is bad for a lot of parts. It seems like a silly thing to do to save a few pennies in fuel, as there are also other risks- not being able to accelerate quickly if needed, losing power steering during that time, etc. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/47 "2019-02-05T17:50:08Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I assume the problems from starting in second (massive diesel trucks aside, where first is probably designed for hauling a boat up a slipway or pulling a 6-foot tree stump) will be from people slipping the clutch in order to do so (on the flat or a slight uphill), rather than those letting the car roll a little way downhill before engaging the clutch in second. > > Related question: occasionally I will stop on a downhill and switch the engine off if I know it’s likely to be more than a 20 second wait (I don’t have stop-start technology). To get going again I might let the car roll forward, then raise the clutch in second to jump start the engine. This avoids load on the starter and battery, but does it in turn cause more wear on the transmission than is wise? Great for when your battery is dead and you are stranded and have no other way to get moving. Actually pretty hard on the transmission and engine. Batteries and starters are cheaper than clutches and transmissions. That said, I had a car for a while that had an issue with the gas tank where if it were below 3/4 full, then any remotely sharp corner would interrupt the flow. On my commute, I had to go from one interstate to the other in a cloverleaf pattern, and the turn would always knock out my fuel and stall my engine. As soon as I was back on the straightaway, I would floor the gas, and drop the clutch, which would slow me for a second until the engine caught, and then would surge ahead. I do not recommend, that’s probably just about the worst thing you can do to your car’s transmission and engine. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/48 "2019-02-05T20:05:10Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > FWIW, I almost always stared in 2nd with my F-350, 7.3l Powerstroke diesel. > First was just too damn low - top speed of maybe 5 mph. I had over 200,000 miles on the original clutch when I got rid of the truck. A truck with super low is not supposed to start in first unless they need it. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/49 "2019-02-05T21:02:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > This. I’ve only owned manual transmission cars, and I’ve never had to replace a clutch. Yeah, both cars I had with manual transmissions I had for well over 100K miles, and I never had to replace a clutch. I only changed to an automatic transmission when I got an early hybrid (Honda Insight), and they only had an auto on the lot, and I was talked into it. I still wish I’d held out for the manual transmission. My next car I bought shortly before retirement, and I was thinking I might have physical challenges as I aged that having an automatic transmission would make it easier to deal with. I still have days when I wish I still drove a stick. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/50 "2019-02-05T21:20:13Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > I taught myself how to drive a stick when I picked up my first stick shift car from the dealer. I had done some reading up before, so by the time I got the car home I was driving fine. Me, too! The only problem in the first few weeks was my usual off-ramp on my way home from work was a _steep_ incline. I avoided that off-ramp for a while before I felt comfortable. Once early on I had to reverse up a very steep hill. I was terrified. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/51 "2019-02-07T03:46:25Z")
What I want to know, after 3+ years of driving a stick shift car for a daily driver (which began after 7 years of riding a motorcycle), is… What the heck to do about going in reverse up an incline?! The handbrake trick doesn’t work nearly as well. I couldn’t get a feel for the bite point in reverse and ended up burning clutch for sure when I had to parallel park facing down a hill. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/52 "2019-02-07T04:38:33Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > What I want to know, after 3+ years of driving a stick shift car for a daily driver (which began after 7 years of riding a motorcycle), is… What the heck to do about going in reverse up an incline?! The handbrake trick doesn’t work nearly as well. I couldn’t get a feel for the bite point in reverse and ended up burning clutch for sure when I had to parallel park facing down a hill. Interesting. I’ve actually never had this situation, so I’m curious, too. I mean, I’ve dealt with inclines and cut me teeth on hill starts driving through the Alps, but it’s never happened that I needed to reverse up an incline to parallel park (of course, I live in Chicago now, so that would not be expected.) Do you just not get the same kind of feedback doing a brake start in reverse? I mean, I don’t know–I’ve never tried, as far as I know. With forward gears, there’s a clear lurch the car does when the gear bites. Does that not happen in the other direction? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/53 "2019-02-07T14:48:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Interesting. I’ve actually never had this situation, so I’m curious, too. I mean, I’ve dealt with inclines and cut me teeth on hill starts driving through the Alps, but it’s never happened that I needed to reverse up an incline to parallel park (of course, I live in Chicago now, so that would not be expected.) Do you just not get the same kind of feedback doing a brake start in reverse? I mean, I don’t know–I’ve never tried, as far as I know. With forward gears, there’s a clear lurch the car does when the gear bites. Does that not happen in the other direction? Well, when going forward on an uphill incline, the car will roll backward when you clutch in without the brake. So the idea is to release the clutch with a bit of gas to find the bite point before smoothly releasing the handbrake for control. In reverse though, the car wants to roll FORWARD. In principle it’s the same - use the hand brake to hold the car, release clutch with gas until it bites, and slowly release the brake - but I found it much different to feel the bite in reverse versus first gear. I basically didn’t feel it at all, the car kept rolling forward, and I ended up revving to like 4-5K “to make sure” before releasing the hand brake a few centimeters at a time. This could be because the car I was in is a RWD car so it’s much harder on the drive train to pull it backward against gravity than to push it forward. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/54 "2019-02-07T14:57:15Z")
I probably just need to find an incline to practice reversing on to get a feel for the different situation when it doesn’t involve having six inches of leeway to get it right, and on the first time encountering the scenario, too. But it felt completely different from the uphill situation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/55 "2019-02-07T15:13:14Z")
Why are some transmissions more “finicky” than others? I’ve driven cars/trucks where it is difficult to engage reverse, for example. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/56 "2019-02-07T15:17:06Z")
I also wonder what would happen in some newer cars with a manual transmission and electronic e-brake instead of a hand brake lever, like my friend’s 2017 Honda Civic Si. Instead there is a “Hill Assist” feature that applies the brakes for you as you release the clutch on a hill. I will have to ask him how well it works when facing downhill going in reverse. Just last weekend, I had to back up a steep driveway leading to an underground parking lot that had a blockage. There were 2 cars behind me also backing up, and one in front of me, and a guy on the street level indicating when street and pedestrian traffic allowed for our line of cars to move backward. I was in a 2008 Acura MDX, an SUV with auto trans and AWD, and I could still feel the car rolling forward several inches with each “pulse” as I hit the gas pedal before the engine revs got high enough to push the car backward. I can only imagine it’d have been even worse in my RWD car with the manual transmission. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/57 "2019-02-07T15:24:34Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Why are some transmissions more “finicky” than others? > > I’ve driven cars/trucks where it is difficult to engage reverse, for example. Difficult to drop into reverse, or to drive smoothly in reverse? The thing about driving in reverse is that you must use the clutch to control the speed, to “slip” the clutch with partial engagement, which so many people have already indicated is to be avoided as much as possible. But you cannot avoid it in reverse. Especially since the gearing ratio in reverse is usually even higher than in first gear - if you just let the clutch out, you’d likely be going backwards at around 20 MPH very quickly. And it’s not supposed to be easy to get into reverse, lest you accidentally move into it instead of first or sixth gear (depending on where reverse is located on your shift gate). In fact in newer cars, you may have to lift a ring under the shift knob even to allow moving into the reverse gate. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/58 "2019-02-07T15:32:54Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Instead there is a “Hill Assist” feature that applies the brakes for you as you release the clutch on a hill. When I test-drove my current Jeep Wrangler, the clutch felt “funny”. The salesman told me it was a “hill-holder clutch” which I’d never heard of. Happily, it is easy to turn off this “feature” (turn key, push clutch in and out, turn key, do hockeypokey kinda thing). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/59 "2019-02-07T15:34:28Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Difficult to drop into reverse, or to drive smoothly in reverse? I can drive fine in reverse, but yeah, I guess due to gearing ratio there are vehicles where it is difficult to “find” reverse. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825/60 "2019-02-07T16:11:15Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > When I test-drove my current Jeep Wrangler, the clutch felt “funny”. The salesman told me it was a “hill-holder clutch” which I’d never heard of. Happily, it is easy to turn off this “feature” (turn key, push clutch in and out, turn key, do hockeypokey kinda thing). Hm. But if you disable the hill-holder feature, do you have a handbrake, or is the e-brake electronic like it is in my friend’s Civic Si? I rarely use the handbrake thing on a hill start or red light because most of the time I can just shift into first and move quickly enough (with minimal rollback); or if need be, if someone is right up near my rear bumper, I use the “clutch hold” what is not good to do for a full red light cycle, but just for the 1-2 seconds after the light is red in the other direction, to make sure I can do a quick launch when it goes green without rolling back (and without the handbrake). But that’s not never. I guess in your scenario, if you’re in the “would definitely resort to the handbrake maneuver” situation, you’d similarly re-engage the hill-holder feature? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clutch-questions/828825.md?page=4)