# C'mon iTunes, learn to alphabetize **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946 "2012-04-16T13:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/1 "2012-04-16T13:33:17Z")
I guess Steve Jobs was rich enough to have rules all his own. In Job’s iTunes world, “I’ll” comes before “I”. And if a song title starts with the words “A” or “The” it gets sorted by the next word in the title, which might be ok if the sort field got correctly populated every time you add such a song – but it doesn’t always populate correctly, So if you add a bunch of titles at once you may find yourself having to go in any manually do the work that it was supposed to do. And don’t get me started on shit like parentheses, commas and the like. You know what I want? I want a conspiracy between Microsoft and Apple, so Excel and iTunes will sort using identical rules. I want a switch that tells them to ignore non-alphanumeric characters when I flip it, and another switch to turn the “A” and “The” first word thing on and off. And I want world peace! And get off my lawn! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/2 "2012-04-16T14:01:45Z")
Bah. At least iTunes has a native way of fixing the problem. Try dealing with Amazon and the Kindle for “alphabatizing” that will drive you wacky. For those problems you have to hunt down and install an outside program. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/3 "2012-04-16T14:04:10Z")
When I get a Kindle, I’ll be sure to create a Pit thread to bitch about it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/4 "2012-04-16T14:37:20Z")
If you’d just accept that the way Jobs and Apple want you to do things is the Right Way and that any other way is Deviationism, Life would be a lot less stressful. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/5 "2012-04-16T14:48:26Z")
But that would be offensive to MS God. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/6 "2012-04-16T20:14:03Z")
I comes before “i’ll” in my iTunes. Maybe you’re just crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/7 "2012-04-16T20:29:45Z")
Mac or IBM – I have an IBM. Maybe this is the way Jobs decided to screw with us IBM users. Or maybe your list is sorted in descending rather than ascending order, and you haven’t noticed yet. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/8 "2012-04-17T15:44:33Z")
Originally, artists like “The Beatles” were listed under “T”. Can you imagine how many artists were in the T section? I wonder if the change to “ignore the The” mode caused the “ignore the The” in song titles as well… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/9 "2012-04-17T16:26:38Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Originally, artists like “The Beatles” were listed under “T”. Can you imagine how many artists were in the T section? > > I wonder if the change to “ignore the The” mode caused the “ignore the The” in song titles as well… Well, kinda. There are fields called “sort fields” for the names of the song, album and artist, and iTunes sorts playlists by what’s in these fields if they have a different name in them than the “regular” field. If you add the song “Cat People” by “David Bowie”, the sort fields stay empty and the playlists a sorted by those names. If you add “The Night Before” by “The Beatles” to iTunes, what’s _supposed_ to happen is that the two sort fields will auto-filled with “Night Before” and “Beatles”. The list will display “The” or “A” as the first word, but will ignore them as far as sorting is concerned. But for some reason it doesn’t always work, which is why, if you sort by artist after adding new tunes, you might find some Beatles songs listed under “B” and some under “T”. A song that begins with either “I” or “I’m” or any number of other contracted variation doesn’t result in the sort field getting any data, so it sorts by whatever’s in the regular fields. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why “I’m” comes before “I” in their logic, and why they haven’t fixed in in any of the ten million updates they’ve put out over the years. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/10 "2012-04-17T16:33:16Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Originally, artists like “The Beatles” were listed under “T”. Can you imagine how many artists were in the T section? > > I wonder if the change to “ignore the The” mode caused the “ignore the The” in song titles as well… Where does [The The](http://www.thethe.com/) get filed? Edit for the pedants: This is a joke. It gets filed under The. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/11 "2012-04-17T16:49:59Z")
I actually knew that. I have some of their music. 🙂 There’s also a group named “!!!”, which is sorted after all the letter and number titles. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/12 "2012-04-17T16:50:03Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t figure out why “I’m” comes before “I” in their logic, and why they haven’t fixed in in any of the ten million updates they’ve put out over the years. It doesn’t for me. I just checked all the music on my iPhone - “I” then “I’ll” them “I’m.” I didn’t mess with any of them except to properly alphabetize the artist names if they’re songs I’ve ripped. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/13 "2012-04-17T16:57:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It doesn’t for me. I just checked all the music on my iPhone - “I” then “I’ll” them “I’m.” I didn’t mess with any of them except to properly alphabetize the artist names if they’re songs I’ve ripped. Do you have iTunes on a computer at home? Does it sort any differently there? I’ve had iTunes on my home computers for maybe 4 or 5 years, and it’s always sorted this way for me. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/14 "2012-04-17T17:10:17Z")
Since a second person has come along now and said their iTunes sorts differently, I just took a screen shot and [stuck it on Flickr](http://www.flickr.com/photos/12544059@N03/7087810205/in/photostream/lightbox/) so you can see I’m not delusional or bullshitting. You can even see that it’s sorting in ascending order from the up arrow in the column heading. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/15 "2012-04-17T17:34:52Z")
You think iTunes is bad? Here are the first few movies in the New Movies section of my cable provider’s On-Demand service (I’m giving you the French ones because they come first in the list, followed by similar fuckedupedness among the English titles): Alvin et les Chipmunks 3 Alvin et les Chipmunks 3 - HD Hop Hop - HD Larry Crowne Larry Crowne - HD Un jour Gamin au vélo Gamin au vélo - HD Un jour - HD Millénium (SD then HD…I’m getting tired of typing things twice) Gardien d’enfant (HD then SD) Taupe HD Taupe Carnage - HD Carnage… No alphabetical order. Not even consistent on whether HD or SD is listed first. In one case, the HD movie isn’t even adjacent to the SD one in the list. Videotron says they are upgrading the menu software over the next few months, so hopefully by that point someone will have figured out how to program a Sort function. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/16 "2012-04-17T18:05:59Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > You think iTunes is bad? Here are the first few movies in the New Movies section of my cable provider’s On-Demand service (I’m giving you the French ones because they come first in the list, followed by similar fuckedupedness among the English titles): > > Alvin et les Chipmunks 3 > Alvin et les Chipmunks 3 - HD > Hop > Hop - HD > Larry Crowne > Larry Crowne - HD > Un jour > Gamin au vélo > Gamin au vélo - HD > Un jour - HD > Millénium (SD then HD…I’m getting tired of typing things twice) > Gardien d’enfant (HD then SD) > Taupe HD > Taupe > Carnage - HD > Carnage… > > No alphabetical order. Not even consistent on whether HD or SD is listed first. In one case, the HD movie isn’t even adjacent to the SD one in the list. > > Videotron says they are upgrading the menu software over the next few months, so hopefully by that point someone will have figured out how to program a Sort function. Start your own Videotron Pit Thread. I haven’t even mentioned how fucked up Rhapsody’s sort function is, which I’ll admit makes iTunes look like the Einstein of music services. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/17 "2012-04-17T18:26:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Since a second person has come along now and said their iTunes sorts differently, I just took a screen shot and [stuck it on Flickr](http://www.flickr.com/photos/12544059@N03/7087810205/in/photostream/lightbox/) so you can see I’m not delusional or bullshitting. You can even see that it’s sorting in ascending order from the up arrow in the column heading. Right-click on the header bar, and select “Sort Name”. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/18 "2012-04-17T18:50:37Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Right-click on the header bar, and select “Sort Name”. What is your point? If you left-click on any of the column headers, you switch between sorting the list by that column, either ascending or descending. If you right click on the header, you get a list of all the column headings, to either add them to or hide them from, the display. The list as shown in the pic is sorted by (song) Name in ascending order (or iTunes interpretation of ascending order). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/19 "2012-04-17T20:58:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What is your point? If you left-click on any of the column headers, you switch between sorting the list by that column, either ascending or descending. If you right click on the header, you get a list of all the column headings, to either add them to or hide them from, the display. The list as shown in the pic is sorted by (song) Name in ascending order (or iTunes interpretation of ascending order). My point is that “Name” and “Sort Name” are different things, and hopefully sorting by “Sort Name” will solve your problem, since presumably there’s a chance that there’s a different algorithm or set of sort rules. I don’t currently have access to an iTunes library, so I can’t test it out for you - but I apparently incorrectly assumed that you wouldn’t need such an excessive amount of handholding. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946/20 "2012-04-17T21:24:37Z")
Yes, I know all about the sort fields, They are not populated with anything in these instances, and so are not relevant to the issue. Sorry, I should have mentioned that in the OP. Having said this, I went in and tried your suggestion, and it makes no difference. I did notice one odd thing, though. Probably 99% of the “Sort Name” fields are blank – only those with actual names beginning in “A” or “The” get populated. And it turns out the sorting by “Sort Name” doesn’t _really_ sort by that field. If it did, all the empty fields would sort to the top or bottom. But in fact, the sort remains identical to sorting by “Name”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-itunes-learn-to-alphabetize/618946.md?page=2)