# C'mon, Red Sox. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775 "2003-10-16T13:28:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/21 "2003-10-17T01:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*If the Bosox win tonight, beating the hated Yankees in the decisive game, there’s no telling what will happen. The laws of gravity and electromagnetism might be undone, along with the strong and weak forces of atomic interaction. Entropy might be reversed, rivers would flow uphill, and the pieces of a broken glass might jump back together and rejoin. \*\* Well, that was my theory for what would happen if it was a Sox Cubs series, since in theory, the curse would end for one of them. But apparantly God forsaw that the universe would freeze up and closed the Cubs window before it happened, to free up some galactic RAM. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/22 "2003-10-17T02:00:07Z")
As a Cubs fan, I am rooting for the Sox to pull this one out so at least one historically unlucky team can make it to the Series. Good luck, Sox fans! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/23 "2003-10-17T04:19:20Z")
Sorry, Rilchiam…looks like 2003 ain’t a curse-breaking year for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/24 "2003-10-17T04:30:54Z")
It’s hard being a Yankee-hater isn’t it? I really do have sympathy for you guys. They win a lot and it stinks. It must be the money or something equally nefarious-- like a curse. It couldn’t possibly be because the Yankees are good. Nope. Couldn’t be that. What I’ve learned over the years of being a Yankee fan (I lived 5 blocks from the stadium growing up and lived through the good times and the lean years) is to not say anything. Just wait. And if the Yankees lose, we fans can say “Wait 'till next year” with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/25 "2003-10-17T04:42:34Z")
Sorry, Sox fans. That was a heartbreaker. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/26 "2003-10-17T09:59:17Z")
Grady Little, in the eighth, with a slow hook. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/27 "2003-10-17T10:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \It must be the money or something equally nefarious-- like a curse. It couldn’t possibly be because the Yankees are good. Nope. Couldn’t be that. With all due respect, **Biggirl** , that’s completely missing the point. Sure, the Yankees are good. And they’ve been one of baseball’s elite teams in far more years than any other team in the history of baseball. But other teams are good too. In particular, the Red Sox have periodically had some fine teams. Now, whether you believe the best team always wins a short series (false) or whether you believe there’s an element of luck involved, it still comes down to the same thing: that every year the Yankees and the Red Sox tightly contest the AL East (taking it just back to 1969, to make life easier here), the Yankees win. If it’s totally a matter of skill, then after awhile it’s improbable that every time the Yanks and Bosox are that close in quality, the Yanks are always the team that’s just a tiny bit better. And if it’s a matter of mostly skill, but some luck, then you’d figure that between two good teams of nearly the same ability, eventually the dice would roll the Red Sox’ number. After awhile, the fact that it’s _always_ the Yankees, in these cases, seems to need some explanation. And the fact that the Yankees are good isn’t anything that’s being denied; it simply explains why they’re there in the first place. But it’s not like they’re so much better than the Sox that the ALCS’ outcome was a foregone conclusion. It went to extra innings in the seventh game; by all the realities of baseball, either team could have won this series, just the way either team could have won, say, that one-game playoff in 1978. But that ain’t the way it works out. And that’s more than “the Yankees are a good team” can explain, all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/28 "2003-10-17T12:49:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*It’s hard being a Yankee-hater isn’t it? I really do have sympathy for you guys. They win a lot and it stinks. It must be the money or something equally nefarious-- like a curse. It couldn’t possibly be because the Yankees are good. Nope. Couldn’t be that. \*\* Yeah, I mean, it’s just a complete coincidence that the Yankees’ rise to dominance came when they first had and then maintained the highest payroll in baseball. Money has nothing whatsoever to do with the Yankees’ continued success. It must be hard to be a Yankees fan and have to maintain the level of delusion required to say with a straight face that having the highest payroll in the game by $50 million has nothing whatsoever to do with their success. It really must take a lot of work. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/29 "2003-10-17T14:58:38Z")
That’s the thought that popped into my head when they’d show Zimmer in the dugout last night. Just thought I’d share that before we move on. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/30 "2003-10-17T15:18:42Z")
As another big market, high-payroll ($100-million plus team), I really don’t think the Red Sox are in any position to complain about the Yankees’ spending habits. The Red Sox are FAR from being have-nots. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/31 "2003-10-17T15:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > **The Red Sox are FAR from being have-nots.** Not as far as World Series victories are concerned. Pedro, you’re a helluva pitcher, and Boston played like champs this whole series. It was a great ride; I really enjoyed it. But when you’ve just put two men on with only one out in the eighth in the deciding game of a championship series, and Grady asks you if you’ve got any [bullets](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031017&content_id=583258&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb) left… you say “NO”! Here’s hoping Boston plays this strong next year. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/32 "2003-10-17T16:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Not as far as World Series victories are concerned. Well, yes. But I meant financially. The Sox are a popular and wealthy team in a large market, and I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from spending like the Yankees if they wanted to. I think I said it in a different thread, but the teams certainly proved over the course of the season that the talent gap between them - if there was one - was very small. If the Sox were the Pittsburgh Pirates, who had little money, little talent, and a bad season, there might be a case that the different in payroll bore the brunt of the responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/33 "2003-10-17T16:29:17Z")
It shouldn’t have come down to Pedro’s call. Athletes who are competitors are usually going to say they’ve still got it, even if they don’t. It’s the manager’s responsibility to ‘be the grownup’ in that situation, and make the call based on what he knows and sees. It’s no secret that Pedro’s a 6-7 inning pitcher nowadays. He’d just given up the second of those solo HRs to Giambi in the 7th. I was surprised to see him even come out to pitch the 8th, and even then, I assumed he was only there until the first sharp hit. (Which was Jeter’s one-out double.) When he was pitching to Bernie Williams, his pitch count was in the 110-115 range somewhere, which Grady Little should have also been aware of. All that added up to, “this guy is toast - let’s pull him before he gets burnt.” Especially when you’ve got a bullpen staff available that had shut the Yanks down all week. IMHO, when Grady went out to talk with Pedro after he gave up the single to Bernie was the _latest_ moment that he should have pulled Pedro, the other two obvious choices being (a) between the 7th and 8th innings, and (b) after Jeter’s double. It’s (barely, IMHO) defensible for him to hold off until after Bernie’s single, but certainly not any longer than that. (My wife, who’d gone to bed a half inning earlier, later asked me what that loud moan was that she’d heard. It was me, when Grady walked off the mound without calling for a new pitcher.) Maybe the Red Sox will play strong next year, but the thing is, there are no guarantees that they’ll get this far next year. Baseball’s funny like that. You’ve got to take advantage of the postseason chances that come your way, because unless you’re the Yankees or the Braves, you can’t plan on being there very often. (And even the Braves can’t count on getting to the NLCS, these days.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775/34 "2003-10-17T19:51:05Z")
Yankees - Marlins. The matchup everybody was waiting for. :rolleyes: And if a team I’m rooting for ever gets to the 8th inning of a decisive game with a lead, I will send someone to the broadcast booth to put duct tape over Joe Buck’s mouth before he can say “…5 outs away from victory”. It’s been the kiss of death for the Giants ('02 WS), Cubs and Red Sox. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cmon-red-sox/207775.md?page=1)