# "C'n I freshen your coffee, hon? And shove God down your throat?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977 "2002-07-26T18:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/21 "2002-07-27T05:35:26Z")
I think that the idea is that if she is a good Christian woman living up to her ideals, she can show it better by doing good deeds with five grand than by sticking billboards up. What did JC say? Witness with actions and not words? ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/22 "2002-07-27T05:45:41Z")
How 'bout “Love thy neighbor as thyself”? Is this the best way she could find to demonstrate love for her neighbors? Moralizing to them? I’m sure there were hungry people, or hurting people or otherwise needy people within a reasonable distance from her. She could have chosen to help them. Yet, she chose to preach at the rest of us. I’m sure it’s much more effective to induce guilt feelings in the ambivalent than it is to actually HELP someone. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/23 "2002-07-27T06:01:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackKnight \* > \*\*Shove God down your throat? Isn’t that a bit unlikely? I mean, how much can the average throat hold, anyway? And God has got to have a pretty big package … \*\* Which leads to the age old philisophical question: Could God create a dick so big that even He could not suck it? ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/24 "2002-07-27T07:02:23Z")
I’m gonna echo **Guinastasia** ’s comments here: she’s at liberty to use her cash as she wishes. Furthermore, in the lady’s mind, giving money to people isn’t the only means of “helping” them. I mean, that’s what I assume **Eve** ’s ““living her religion” by helping people” comment refers to: taking the five grand and giving it to, say, the homeless or some other worthy cause. The Christian life calls for being charitable to others, but with larger issue behind it of bringing people closer to God. (Hence, missionaries don’t just give out food, but Bibles too. Mother Theresa’s order didn’t just care for the homeless, ill, and dying, but worked in a genuine ministry.) I hope I’m not misreading the comment. But I do get annoyed when people call Christians hypocrites for not giving enough money away, when that isn’t necessarily the issue. But I agree with the larger sentiment: these billboards will likely cause more annoyance and division than the awareness the waitress is hoping to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/25 "2002-07-27T07:47:42Z")
I have no problem with what she’s doing, but I have to ask why there isn’t some kind of atheist counter-movement to all these religious billboards I have been seeing lately. I’d like to see some. Maybe a few in-your-face ones saying ‘God is a fairy tale’ or ‘The Bible is a work of fiction’, but I think something more effective would be the more subtle ‘Do you honestly believe what your religion tells you?’ Even if it made just one in a thousand religious people question their beliefs, I think it would be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/26 "2002-07-27T10:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\* > > Which leads to the age old philisophical question: Could God create a dick so big that even He could not suck it? \*\* Personally, I’d create one so big that I _could_…oh, never mind. Y’know **matt\_mcl’s** just waiting for someone to tell him how old and tired that joke is getting. C’mon, folks, get with the program. ON THE SUBJECT OF THE OP (just as a change of pace): **Badtz** , perhaps because atheists aren’t as committed to spreading their “gospel” as the believers are? Perhaps, mind you; I’m just guessing here. But if you want to see something like that, no-one’s stopping you from doing what she did: fork over the bucks and post your philosophy. I’m not getting worked up over it either way, so knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/27 "2002-07-27T11:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blur \* > \*\*I don’t see what the big deal is. The lady got the money, paid for her billboard and can put what she wants on it. What does being a waitress have to do with anything? \*\* Class, dahling. She’s not a Manhattan editor and socialite, so naturally we don’t want to see her espousing the views of the Great Unwashed in Flyover Country, sullying our view of the freeway, now do we? Heavens, would that the servant class simply stick to waitressing and other roles to which they were born . . . ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/28 "2002-07-27T12:27:19Z")
**Eve** I thought this was going to be a rant about how you were out dining and the waitress started speaking in tongues or witnessing to you…🙂 In any event, I have to agree that it’s her money. If she chooses to donate it to a homeless shelter, fine. If she chooses to buy billboard space, fine. If she chooses to blow it on the crap tables in Vegas, fine. You are also free, of course, to buy your own billboard space… ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/29 "2002-07-27T17:33:36Z")
One reason why this isn’t just about someone spending her money and exercising her right to free speech is that this is about the whole Pledge of Allegiance flap. She didn’t just spend her savings to rent a billboard saying “Jesus Is Lord” or “God Loves You” as her way of fulfilling the Great Commission. This is _specifically_ about keeping “under God” in a [Congressionally-mandated, officially-recognized](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/4.html) national patriotic ritual. “Under God” is only in the PoA in the first place because _Congress passed a law respecting an establishment of religion_. _Congress_ shoved God down our throats in 1954. Ms. Hansen thinks this is a good idea. Yeah, it’s her money. Yeah, she has a right to free speech. But she’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/30 "2002-07-27T18:34:15Z")
I love how any defense of the woman is nearly always framed as if someone is trying to take away her freedom of speech. Nobody is saying she has no right to say what she wants, they’re just exercising their freedom to criticise what she said. And very well said, **MEBuckner**. ---
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/31 "2002-07-27T20:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > **One reason why this isn’t just about someone spending her money and exercising her right to free speech is that this is about the whole Pledge of Allegiance flap. She didn’t just spend her savings to rent a billboard saying “Jesus Is Lord” or “God Loves You” as her way of fulfilling the Great Commission. This is _specifically_ about keeping “under God” in a [Congressionally-mandated, officially-recognized](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/4.html) national patriotic ritual. “Under God” is only in the PoA in the first place because _Congress passed a law respecting an establishment of religion_. _Congress_ shoved God down our throats in 1954. Ms. Hansen thinks this is a good idea.** Perhaps I’m being dense, but I don’t see how the fact that she paid for a billboard that espoused a political view instead of a purely religious view in any way changes the issue of free speech. Is she any more answerable to us for having chosen the message to put on the billboard? Also, I’m sorry, but for those of you who think that a stranger renting billboard space for a message constitutes “shoving it down your throat,” get real. You don’t **have** to read the damn billboard. Keep your eyes on the road where they belong and before you know it, you’ll forget that this mean ol’ waitress even CONSIDERED expressing an unpopular view. Lastly, I agree with Reilly. If a NY Times columnist expressed her opinion in an op-ed piece as mildly as the waitress expressed it on the billboard, I doubt it would be taken here. Great debates, maybe, but not the pit. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/32 "2002-07-27T20:52:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps I’m being dense, but I don’t see how the fact that she paid for a billboard that espoused a political view instead of a purely religious view in any way changes the issue of free speech. Is she any more answerable to us for having chosen the message to put on the billboard? Of course it’s free speech. But free speech doesn’t include the “right” to not have other people disagree with you. She is precisely as “answerable” as anyone else who publicly expresses a political view, to everyone else with an opinion. > [@](#): > > …you’ll forget that this mean ol’ waitress even CONSIDERED expressing an unpopular view. Ah, yes, that deeply unpopular view, “Let’s keep telling atheists to fuck off everytime we pledge allegiance to the flag!” I think in some polls support for keeping “under God” in the pledge has slipped down to 90%. > [@](#): > > Lastly, I agree with Reilly. If a NY Times columnist expressed her opinion in an op-ed piece as mildly as the waitress expressed it on the billboard, I doubt it would be taken here. Great debates, maybe, but not the pit. Oh, I dunno. We Pit all kinds of people around here. _New York Times_ columnists are not immune. ---
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/33 "2002-07-27T22:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\* > Of course it’s free speech. But free speech doesn’t include the “right” to not have other people disagree with you. She is precisely as “answerable” as anyone else who publicly expresses a political view, to everyone else with an opinion. > \*\* That’s not what I’m disagreeing with, however. You seemed to state earlier that there was somehow a difference between **Jesus is Lord** and **Keep “under God” in the constitution** as far as free speech was concerned. I know you don’t think she should be censored in any way, but I don’t see where you draw the line between a purely religious view and a political view. As a fellow atheist, it’s not like I really see the difference between paying money to espouse one or the other. Then again, there IS this: > [@](#): > > **"Let’s keep telling atheists to fuck off everytime we pledge allegiance to the flag!"** So, maybe I CAN see where you’re coming from. To which, I reply, puh-leeeze!!! Get OVER yourself!!! They’re not telling us to go fuck ourselves. It’s not about us, OK? When they mention “under God,” they’re not thinking about us. When they add something like, “One nation, under God, fuck the atheists, and piss on the agnostics,” **then** they’re telling us to fuck off every time they pledge allegiance to the flag. Until then, “under God” is more about them than it is about us. If you REALLY think most Christians go around praising God for the express purpose of getting on atheists’ nerves, then you’ve seriously overestimated your place in the grand scheme of things. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing “under God” removed from the pledge. I think that it was put there during a period of overwhelming religious influence, and probably put there for the best of reasons, but given the current legal climate, it should go. But get this straight: When you take a phrase that Christians and other theists have said every day in school for almost 50 years and suddenly say that it should be edited out, YOU’RE telling THEM to fuck off, not the other way around. When a waitress, or anyone else for that matter, spends hard-earned money to express her views, and you go start a thread to whine about it, YOU’RE telling HER to fuck off, not the other way around. I happen to agree with your position. It’s just that I’d rather be honest about what it really entails. And, finally, I should apologize. I was unclear about my term “unpopular.” I meant “unpopular” in the context of the message board, which overwhelmingly seems to support getting rid of the phrase (again, rightly so, in my opinion). ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/34 "2002-07-27T23:24:54Z")
> [@](#): > > You seemed to state earlier that there was somehow a difference between **Jesus is Lord** and **Keep “under God” in the constitution** as far as free speech was concerned. I know you don’t think she should be censored in any way, but I don’t see where you draw the line between a purely religious view and a political view. As a fellow atheist, it’s not like I really see the difference between paying money to espouse one or the other. Well, I hope I never said anything about keeping “under God” in the _Constitution_… There is a difference between expressing a religious or philosophical view I disagree with, and campaigning to have that view supported by the state. The problem is not with Christians paying their money to espouse the view that this nation (and all other nations) are “under God”, or saying that they “trust in God”. The problem is with the U.S. Congress espousing those views, on my behalf. > [@](#): > > I personally wouldn’t mind seeing “under God” removed from the pledge. I think that it was put there during a period of overwhelming religious influence, and probably put there for the best of reasons, but given the current legal climate, it should go. I don’t know if that was just a typo for “probably not put there for the best of reasons”, but [here](http://bennyhills.fortunecity.com/hardy/203/nonbeliever/page49.html) (Warning: You’ll get mucho pop-up ads if you click on that link) is a quote from Rep. Louis C. Rabaut from the legislative debate over altering the pledge: > [@](#): > > Mr. Speaker… > > Dr. Docherty and I are not of the same Christian denomination, but I may say that in this matter he has hit the nail right on the head. You may argue from dawn to dusk about differing political, economic, and social systems, but the fundamental issue which is the unbridgeable gap between America and Communist Russia is a belief in Almighty God. From the root of atheism stems the evil weed of communism and its branches of materialism and political dictatorship. Unless we are willing to affirm our belief in the existence of God and His creator-creature relationship to man, we drop man himself to the significance of a grain of sand and open the floodgates to tyranny and oppression. > > An atheistic American, as Dr. Docherty points out, is a contradiction in terms. > > This country was founded on theistic beliefs, on the belief in the worthwhileness of the individual human being which in turn depends solely and completely on the identity of man as the creature and son of God. The fraudulent claims of the Communists to the role of champions of social, economic, and political reform is given the lie by their very own atheist [sic] materialist concept of life and their denunciation of religion, the bond between God and Man, as ‘the opium of the people’… > > It is therefore, most proper that in our salute to the flag, the patriotic standard around which we rally as Americans, we state the real meaning of that flag. From their earliest childhood our children must know the real meaning of America. Children and Americans of all ages must know that this is one Nation which “under God” means “liberty and justice for all.” So, as far as the original intent of the legislation to put “under God” in the pledge goes, they pretty much _were_ saying “fuck you, atheists”, on the (ludicrous) grounds that all atheists are Communists, and no true American is an atheist. > [@](#): > > But get this straight: When you take a phrase that Christians and other theists have said every day in school for almost 50 years and suddenly say that it should be edited out, YOU’RE telling THEM to fuck off, not the other way around. No. I will concede that many theists in this country were probably just not thinking about it when they passively supported “ceremonial deism” in public life. It’s a little harder to buy that they aren’t being actively hostile to atheists when they rise up in righteous indignation when it is pointed out to them that what they are doing excludes some of their fellow citizens from the rituals of American patriotism based on their religious beliefs. However, just advocating neutrality–"…one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all…" and going back to _E pluribus unum_ as the national motto–is **NOT** telling anyone to fuck off based on their religious beliefs. “We Don’t Trust In God” on the dollar and “one nation, without God, indivisible…”, now _that_ would be telling American theists to fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/35 "2002-07-28T00:15:41Z")
One of my co-workers started handing me religious literature and sending me e-mails of a religious nature. When I asked her to stop, she indicated the cross I wear, stating she thought **that** made it okay to inundate me with pamphlets and e-mails. “I wear a cross”, I told her. “But I don’t insist that **everyone** do so.” No further problems. I realize that what I just posted took a detour from **Eve’s** OP, but I thought it was appropriate. Thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/36 "2002-07-28T01:54:05Z")
Buckner, I concede that there are 2 issues here and just one that bugged me, and I might have gone off on the wrong issue, namely about the justice in taking “under God” out of the pledge, which I **do** agree should be done. It’s not something that would have occured to me naturally, but now that it’s on the table, I’ll support it. The other issue–the one that gets to me–how people can get so worked up about a billboard or about dissenting opinions. You claim that the theists are “actively hostile.” Bullshit. They DISAGREE with you. Perhaps some addled freakazoid somewhere gets his jollies phoning in death threats to people who support removing the words, but that’s not because he’s a theist. It’s because he’s a whack-job. That waitress is not shoving God down your throat any more than you’re shoving atheism down hers. She felt strongly enough about the issue to raise money and put up a billboard. That’s NOT coercion. She’s NOT with the inquisition. She’s not even out to ruin your day. She’s expressing a belief, and she could probably care less whether you yourself read the message, so long as her message gets out. You think her actions “advocate a divisible country of nutcases?” That’s nice. She probably thinks the same thing about you. I wonder why. I had not read Rep Rabaut’s comments, and they gave me pause for thought, but a few minutes later, it dawned on me that there was nothing there that was any more offensive or extremist than in MM O’Hair’s rant [here](http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/atheism.html). They’re both idiots. They’re both extremists. You’re going to find these rimjobs on both sides of the fence, no matter which topic you discuss. It’s not that one is better or worse than the other. As far as I’m concerned, they’re the same person with different rhetoric. Calling the bible “pornographic literature” is about as logical as calling atheism the root of “the evil weed of communism.” I understand that, even barring the aforementioned freakazoids, many theists react strongly. No kidding. We’re going after something very near and dear to their hearts–something that’s intrinsic to their lives. We can’t expect them to remain neutral about this. For you to scream “theist hostility” after the court order in CA is sort of like running to your parents and crying that your sibling started a fight with you because he hit back. One last thing. I stand corrected on the origin of “under God”. I didn’t realize that was why the words were included (although I still sort of doubt that was the ONLY reason), but you were right about the original intent being “fuck you, atheists.” I’ll grant you that. It’s the tone I have a problem with here, not the content. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/37 "2002-07-28T02:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I understand that, even barring the aforementioned freakazoids, many theists react strongly. No kidding. We’re going after something very near and dear to their hearts–something that’s intrinsic to their lives. And what exactly would that be? This is buying into the rhetoric that supporters of church-state separation–whether they’re atheists or theists–are trying to “outlaw God”. Not even Madalyn Murray O’Hare has ever tried to “outlaw God”. For the government to remain neutral and Congress to refrain from making pronouncements, express or implied, about what theological beliefs make one a “real American” is in no way infringing upon the rights of theistic Americans to believe and proclaim their beliefs. And the court decision didn’t “start the fight”, either. The PoA didn’t say “one nation, without God” until Congress changed it in the '50’s. The national motto of the United States wasn’t “Americans Don’t Believe in God” until the McCarthy era rolled around. ---
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/38 "2002-07-28T03:33:08Z")
Buckner, no kidding, you’re preaching to the choir. I didn’t say their belief was right (btw, the belief in question wasn’t so much “Atheists are trying to outlaw God” as it was “God belongs in the pledge.”) I said it was important to them, and that I could understand their side of the story this time around, not that I agreed with them. I’m saying that this isn’t a case of fundies insisting that we revamp all science classes to teach creationism or change Pi to 3 (if you believe that urban legend.) I’m saying (a)Now, WE’RE the ones who want to make the radical change. (b) quite a few RATIONAL, CALM theists are going to disagree with us. And © if we turn around and start screaming “nutcases,” guess who’s going to come off as freaky. Hell, man, I **agree** with you, and even **I** am a little freaked out by the bitterness in this discussion. I’m not disagreeing with your wanting to achieve separation of church and state. I’m disagreeing your grouping every theist who wants “under God” left in the pledge under the monikers “hostile,” “nutcases,” and “fundies.” Right or wrong, the pledge has said that for 50 years, and not everyone who disagrees with changing it mentions Jesus six times in every sentence. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/39 "2002-07-28T13:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quarx \* > [I’m saying that this isn’t a case of fundies insisting that we revamp all science classes to teach creationism or change Pi to 3 (if you believe that urban legend.) [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_341.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977/40 "2002-07-28T15:11:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frankd6 \* > **Is this the best way she could find to demonstrate love for her neighbors? Moralizing to them? I’m sure there were hungry people, or hurting people or otherwise needy people within a reasonable distance from her. She could have chosen to help them.** Why are we automatically assuming that she’s not doing those other things as well? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cn-i-freshen-your-coffee-hon-and-shove-god-down-your-throat/120977.md?page=3)