Cnadian asks: What is wrong with the US voting system?

So which country is the real democracy? :wink:

Oh, you do vote for other things. Remember that we don’t call votes of confidence and form new governments when it’s politically advantageous. Everything is a set term, unless people are really, really pissed off and your state permits recall elections.

Our ballots here in Michigan are probably longer than the ones you saw in Florida. We elect university regents, sheriffs, state proposals, state and federal congressmen and senators, electors who will vote for president, county positions, and all of that.

Voting typically only takes fewer than 10 minutes. Even if I had to wait an hour, I’d rather wait an hour once, rather than wait on hour each time for 15 different elections!

When I lived in Louisiana every once in a while they’d send mosquito trucks around the neighbohood spraying poison in the air to kill the damn things. I never though I’d be happy to see such a thing, but I was always thrilled. Possibly because I am a mosquito magnet.

Bless the mosquito control officials!

And you guys don’t have primaries, either.

In CA, and probably some other states with initiative processes, proposals can be on primary ballots as well. A count of proposals in recent (and current) CA elections:

November, 2008: 12.
June, 2008: 2.
February, 2008: 7.
November, 2006: 13.
June, 2006: 2.
November, 2005: 8.
November, 2004: 16.
March, 2004: 4.
October, 2003: 2.
November, 2002: 7.
March, 2002: 6.
November, 2000: 8.
March, 2000: 21.

From http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_j.htm. Note that there were a couple “special elections” in off years (2003 and 2005). The earlier one in a year will be the primary. Because CA participated in the “let’s try to move our primary ahead of the other guys” contest, the presidential primary was in Feb instead of June, and we wound up with another primary in June for the other offices.

Also, local governments can attach proposals as well as candidates to the ballots. For instance, my ballot had 4 such propositions this time.

Wait a sec! You’ve got ballot initiatives on your primary ballots? So, you HAVE to be a Democrat or Republican to vote on ballot initiatives?
WTF!?!?

One strange consequence of California’s out of control initiative process is that a large amount of the political advertising before an election concerns the proposals not candidates. Prop 7 and Prop 8 were the biggies this time.

CA doesn’t get blanketed with presidential election ads, though you’ll probably get a few “robocalls”. It’s currently a lock for the Democrats and the GOP just has to write off the 55 electoral votes, partially making it up with the 34 TX votes, TX being a reverse situation. In a year like this, with no senator seats or governor up in CA, the only thing ad dollars are being spent on is propositions. I heard an NPR piece the other day about how CA campaign volunteers from both parties were being shipped to other states rather than working their own, since it’s a populous state yielding a lot of volunteers, and there’s no point to doing more than the minimum in CA itself.

As an independent, you get a ballot with only the proposals on it, no primary candidates. Of course, if CA had an open primary, that wouldn’t be an issue.

Haven’t you heard? Open Primaries are EVIL. Can’t have people crossing party lines. It’s part of the Constitution: If you’re not willing to join a party you’re not allowed full participation in the elections your State is running. Oh, but you will get socked for your share of the bill for running the election.

More seriously - closed primaries would be fine if the political parties involved are renting the voting machines, and paying for the polling space, and the meager compensation for the election monitors. Since the government is the one actually providing all that, at taxpayer expense I don’t see any good argument against open primaries.

Regarding the expense - Oregon probably has the right idea. Just go entirely to mail-in voting, and you don’t have polling places, voting machines or election monitors.

CA is pushing becoming a “permanent mail-in voter”. Regarding the OP, I never had a huge wait at a polling place either, but it’s still nicer to just fill the thing in and mail it or drop it off.

(I suppose they’ll eventually work out that they don’t need to put the ballot on cardboard in an oversized format that won’t fit in a normal sized envelope, and requires extra postage. Maybe they could even provide a prepaid envelope with all that saved money (they already have to provide an envelope - that’s what you sign).)

I don’t think the OP has been truly answered. I have a good friend who lived in Oberlin, OH, in 2004. Oberlin is a very liberal town (it was a crucial stop on the underground railroad) and the Oberline College students even more. So… a few days before the election, the county authorities (who were responsible for running the election) came in and moved a large number of voting booths from Oberlin to rural parts of the county that were reliably Republican and didn’t need them. At any rate, my friend and his wife had to stand four hours in line in order to vote. (My friend was the same age as me then, 67, and I don’t think I could have stood in a line for four hours.) This much I will attest. He also said that he heard that there were black neighborhoods in Cleveland where people waited up to 10 hours to vote! Is this inhuman? More importantly, was it enough to claim the election was stolen in Ohio? (I think so.)

Until the 60s, blacks were simply not permitted to register in most of the south. Then Congress passed laws sending in federal voting registrars. So much for state’s rights. I think they could clean up the acts, although the current Supreme Court might not allow it.

The first time I voted, in 1958, in PA, I was presented with a ballot with maybe 40 offices to choose (governor, lt. governor (separately), some of the more important cabinet positions, federal and state senate and lower house, judges, county sheriff, … Probably not mosquito control officer, nor, as we often joked, dog catcher. The result was that virtually everyone voted a straight party ticket. Then there were the constitutional amendments, which never passed since they required a majority of those casting ballots and most people ignored them which was equivalent to voting no. In Canada, where I have been living for 40 years, I have never heard of an election with more than two offices (mayor and councilman) to be chosen at the same time. The only other elected offices are provincial and federal representative, chosen separately, on the date chosen by the prime minister. It used to be that registrars went door-to-door before each election, but not they use permanent voters’ lists. But even if you are not on the list, you can bring some proof of residence (like an electricity bill) and they will allow you to vote.

So in Canada, voting is easy and you get every encouragement to vote. The US has a long history of discouraging the “wrong” people from voting. Ohio does it better than most, but Indiana is trying to close the gap. Then there is Florida which allows you vote, but miscounts your vote. And the Supreme Court that smiles benignly on the entire process.

While efficient, this would seem to virtually end the idea of a secret ballot.

Not if the state handles them as they are supposed to. CA version: the ballot itself does not identify you. Your signature is on the envelope. They can receive the sealed envelope, check your name against the voter rolls like they do when you go into your polling place, then open the envelope and drop the ballot into a box without looking at it. It no longer has any connection to you. If people objected to the signature appearing on the envelope, there could easily be a double envelope, the inner one being the one that you sign. You DO need oversight to assure that this procedure is being carried out as intended. TANSTAAFL.

That doesn’t solve the problems of coercion and vote buying. There is a reason that absentee ballots are often regarded as a necessary evil that shouldn’t be used when the voter can go to a polling place.

yabob answered this pretty much, but to clarify: In primary elections, nonpartisan offices and all propositions are the same on all ballots. People not belonging to a party are given nonpartisan ballots, which ONLY include nonpartisan offices and propostitions.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. I do appreciate the clarification.