# CNN: 5,300 Wells Fargo employees fired for creating over 2 million phony accounts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361 "2016-09-08T20:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/21 "2016-09-08T21:32:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Are there really that many people who need change anymore? Apartment/condo dwellers who rely on coin-op laundry with no on-site change machines. > [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > In other news - Burger King refuses to give beef patties to non-customers, makes them buy a burger! Invalid analogy. Plenty of other banks have no account requirement to issue change. Wells Fargo is the only one I’ve been in which does. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/22 "2016-09-08T21:37:26Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Not exactly the same thing. Historically, if you didn’t have a bank account, you could cash a check at a branch of the bank of the account from which the check is drawn. The bank would still serving a customer; the customer in this case is the person who wrote the check, not the person cashing it. See, this I’m NOT okay with. But that’s not what **Skywatcher** was talking about. Just some dude coming in asking the teller if they can break a 20 is something WF shouldn’t be expected to be bothered with. Neighboring mom & pop shop owners can be a real nuisance constantly coming in and wanting change to run their business. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/23 "2016-09-08T21:37:54Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Apartment/condo dwellers who rely on coin-op laundry with no on-site change machines.Invalid analogy. Plenty of other banks have no account requirement to issue change. Wells Fargo is the only one I’ve been in which does. Most banks around will gladly make change, even for non customers. I’ve even gone into random banks and bought unusuals, such as 50¢ pieces, $1 coins, and $2 bills. Maybe the change isn’t “needed” per se, but it is often amusing to pay for things with them, especially when the cashier is young and inexperienced. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/24 "2016-09-08T21:45:13Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Most banks around will gladly make change, even for non customers. Exactly. WF not doing so while trying hard to make a customer out of a non-customer reeks of their employees being pressured into finding new accounts. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/25 "2016-09-08T21:52:01Z")
When you’re a cashier evaluated on metrics like credit card signups, savings account signups, whatever, and the customers don’t want what your bosses are telling you to sell, it must be tempting to do a little fudging to get the bosses off your back. (Said fudging may not seem like a big deal to you if you’re not privy to the comings and goings in a given customer’s account.) I saw this in a much lower-stakes way in my last retail job with a free “rewards” program - cashiers would sign customers up with fake email addresses/phone numbers. Data analysis caught them - patterns emerge when you’re faking even a few percent of your transactions. The linked article says that the 5300 firings have happened over **several years**. The first five or ten employees who felt pressured into doing this should have set off alarm bells about 1) the pressure front-line employees felt to create new accounts and 2) the lax security that allowed them to do so without customer consent. TLDR: Without excusing the employees who did this shady, shitty stuff, the blame probably falls on the corporate management that created the pressure and lax environment to let this happen. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/26 "2016-09-08T22:14:58Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > The flip side to that coin (:p) is that by refusing to do something so easy, they may be turning away future customers. A valuable public service! I wonder how many new openings they have in the data security department? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/27 "2016-09-08T22:27:17Z")
You’re overqualified. So am I. And him, her, that guy over in the corner… ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/28 "2016-09-08T23:11:44Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > When you’re a cashier evaluated on metrics like credit card signups, savings account signups, whatever, and the customers don’t want what your bosses are telling you to sell, it must be tempting to do a little fudging to get the bosses off your back. (Said fudging may not seem like a big deal to you if you’re not privy to the comings and goings in a given customer’s account.) > I saw this in a much lower-stakes way in my last retail job with a free “rewards” program - cashiers would sign customers up with fake email addresses/phone numbers. Data analysis caught them - patterns emerge when you’re faking even a few percent of your transactions. > > The linked article says that the 5300 firings have happened over **several years**. The first five or ten employees who felt pressured into doing this should have set off alarm bells about 1) the pressure front-line employees felt to create new accounts and 2) the lax security that allowed them to do so without customer consent. > > TLDR: Without excusing the employees who did this shady, shitty stuff, the blame probably falls on the corporate management that created the pressure and lax environment to let this happen. If this happened over several years, then I expect you’re right. If simply for no other reason than surely they would’ve closed the security gap that kept allowing it to happen, or at least monitored it enough to prevent it from getting this far out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/29 "2016-09-08T23:20:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You’d be surprised. Someone at my work found a glitch in the system that allowed you to see the salaries of anyone that work there. Word of the glitch got around, and by the time it was over with, nearly 200 people got fired for utilizing said glitch. > > I think that’s probably what happened with WF. Some dolt figured out how to game the system, word gets around, and before you know it, you got 5300 people acting like idiots. > > It spreads like a virus. At one point, the software written for the finance division of the State Department allowed anybody to go in and change entry data on the spread sheets. It’s the equivalent of allowing accountants to do their work in pencil. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/30 "2016-09-08T23:30:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My son and I have a history of working “temps”, from drudge to consultant, over years. And Wells Fargo was the most common employer. We got to the point were Wells Fargo was our “in-joke” for astonishing incompetence. > > One time, I reported for some computer shit and, true to form, nobody had gotten a 'puter, LAN, desk, you know the drill. So, they asked me to go work in the mail room for the day. $30/hr, sure, no prob. I’m here on a raid to begin with, what do I care? I get it, you did what you had to get by, and I can’t hold it against you that you worked for Wells Fargo. Just tell me that you moved on to a more benign enterprise, like human trafficking or three-card monte. Scheiße porn, even, if it’s the tasteful kind. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/31 "2016-09-08T23:39:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My son and I have a history of working “temps”, from drudge to consultant, over years. And Wells Fargo was the most common employer. We got to the point were Wells Fargo was our “in-joke” for astonishing incompetence. > > One time, I reported for some computer shit and, true to form, nobody had gotten a 'puter, LAN, desk, you know the drill. So, they asked me to go work in the mail room for the day. $30/hr, sure, no prob. I’m here on a raid to begin with, what do I care? > > So, they got an extra guy don’t know what to do with, so they put me to opening “backlog”. Being letters sent to WF that nobody had gotten around to _opening!_ As the Wolfman said, if I’m lyin’, I’m dyin’. Many for days, weeks, some for _months_! > > Letters from really old folks, can’t figure out why they get letters about their mortgages, saying they’re in trouble. And checks! Checks uncashed, unopened, still in the envelope from _months_ previous! I swear, I am _not_ making this up! And their terrified customers not understanding WTF!! > > Banking used to be boring and stupid. Now, not so boring. Lizzie Warren is spot on, its \*supposed \*to be boring, reliable is boring! Don’t want boring, take a career in bomb disposal! This is why I use a Credit Union.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/32 "2016-09-08T23:50:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I get it, you did what you had to get by, and I can’t hold it against you that you worked for Wells Fargo. Just tell me that you moved on to a more benign enterprise, like human trafficking or three-card monte. Scheiße porn, even, if it’s the tasteful kind. “I may be a little coward, but I’m a _greeeedy_ little coward!” - Daffy Duck I “got by”, working at the co-op. I whored myself out for weed and video games. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/33 "2016-09-09T00:16:49Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > They weren’t using the accounts they created to steal the money in those accounts. They were just doing it to create the account churn that lets them hit their sales quotas and get their bonuses/commissions. > > A lot of customers have various checking/savings/credit card/investment accounts with the same bank, so I imagine the most common scenario was someone with just a checking account having a savings account opened up for them with the minimum amount required to do so being taken from their checking account. Customer doesn’t really lose money, and if the savings is tied to the checking with overdraft protection, their effective checking balance would remain the same. And the sly WF employee who did this meets his quota and/or gets his bonus. Same kind of deal with opening a new credit card account… might go unnoticed, until the employee is careless and signs them up for a card that requires a minimum bank account balance to avoid fees. Yes, but the article says a lot of the money came from overdraft fees and the like. Overdraft fees that were caused by the bank. It seems strange that nobody ever reported that to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/34 "2016-09-09T00:27:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, but the article says a lot of the money came from overdraft fees and the like. Overdraft fees that were caused by the bank. It seems strange that nobody ever reported that to the bank. That is what I was wondering. I would notice such a thing instantly like many people would because I never generate overdraft fees. Anyone should be able to see if money got moved from their account without their permission. It would be even easier for credit cards because they would start showing up on countless people’s credit reports if they were associated with real people. That should have triggered a massive fraud investigation a long time ago. At the very least, the auditors should have seen that something was wrong and be held accountable if they didn’t. It is all very strange. My mortgage is with Wells Fargo through no choice of my own. I think I am going to move it now because that is an incredible amount of fraud and incompetence on the part of a major bank and I don’t trust them anymore. I hope that at least some people go to prison for it. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/35 "2016-09-09T00:46:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > My mortgage is with Wells Fargo through no choice of my own. I think I am going to move it now because that is an incredible amount of fraud and incompetence on the part of a major bank and I don’t trust them anymore. I hope that at least some people go to prison for it. Good luck! My sister refinanced away from WF twice, spending thousands of dollars to do so. Both times they purchased the new note within 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/36 "2016-09-09T00:51:44Z")
True dat. **Shag** , note of caution: suspenders and a belt. Get expert advice and make them sign a note says that if what they tell you ain’t so, you get to shoot them. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/37 "2016-09-09T04:51:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “I may be a little coward, but I’m a _greeeedy_ little coward!” > > - Daffy Duck > > I “got by”, working at the co-op. I whored myself out for weed and video games. Yeah, I can see you playing a video game. What was your favorite, _Woody Guthrie’s Whack-A-Facist_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/38 "2016-09-09T05:38:13Z")
WFB is famous for “cross-selling” - selling new products to existing customers. I was involved in one such product. The sales reps made $5 for each customer they signed up. A browse through a branch showed that the “For Bank Use Only” field on a “Fill this in to Enroll” coupon was pre-filled. It was the employee id of the person who made the sale. Yeah, those folks were keen to cross-sell. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/39 "2016-09-09T06:25:23Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You’d be surprised. Someone at my work found a glitch in the system that allowed you to see the salaries of anyone that work there. Word of the glitch got around, and by the time it was over with, nearly 200 people got fired for utilizing said glitch. That’s pretty fucked up. When you have confidential information, and it gets out, it’s the fault of the people who let it out. And if the most sensitive information you care about in your company is how much everyone makes, and not things like customer data or trade secrets, then your priorities are screwed up. I hope the 200 found better jobs and the company folded. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/40 "2016-09-09T06:38:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Are there really that many people who need change anymore? A lot of poorer people do. They won’t have bank accounts and smaller denomination bills make it easier to budget. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361.md?page=3)