# CNN: 5,300 Wells Fargo employees fired for creating over 2 million phony accounts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361 "2016-09-08T20:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/41 "2016-09-09T07:07:38Z")
[Testerday, Mastercard in the UK got slapped with a $14 BILLION law suit for fleecing the public](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/sep/08/mastercard-sued-for-14bn-over-allegedly-overcharging-customers) - reading it, the case seems 100% watertight. Off to the naughty step to join Apple, I think. I’m always interested that people go to prison for small amounts of illegal drugs, lives effectively ruined, and $12, $14 billion scams - nothing … ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/42 "2016-09-09T07:31:24Z")
Well, that’s because people with the power to create billion dollar scams usually insulate themselves with layer upon layer upon layer of financial obfuscation and plausible deniability. That’s the way wealthy criminals operate, and why they so often seem to be above the law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/43 "2016-09-09T07:34:19Z")
Alternatively, we fill all the Club Feds with the most rapacious and heartless greed freaks since the Gilded Age. For several years, with not much to do but talk. And plan. Maybe not so great an idea. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/44 "2016-09-09T07:45:26Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Yeah, I can see you playing a video game. What was your favorite, _Woody Guthrie’s Whack-A-Facist_? _World of Class Warfare_. Really, no contest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/45 "2016-09-09T11:45:24Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is what I was wondering. I would notice such a thing instantly like many people would because I never generate overdraft fees. Anyone should be able to see if money got moved from their account without their permission. It would be even easier for credit cards because they would start showing up on countless people’s credit reports if they were associated with real people. That should have triggered a massive fraud investigation a long time ago. At the very least, the auditors should have seen that something was wrong and be held accountable if they didn’t. It is all very strange. > > My mortgage is with Wells Fargo through no choice of my own. I think I am going to move it now because that is an incredible amount of fraud and incompetence on the part of a major bank and I don’t trust them anymore. I hope that at least some people go to prison for it. I wonder how many people who get a lot of overdraft fees can make sense of them. They’re only a small portion of bank account holders, but they cannot or do not track their money, and act like every overdraft fee is a surprise. Perhaps in some cases they really should have been surprises. Checking your credit reports would note the presence of extra cards, but that assumes that people get their reports, and don’t just skim them (they might not pay attention to a card with their bank with $0 on it as it wouldn’t set off alarm bells the way a card with an unfamiliar bank with thousands of dollars and a poor rating would). If Wells Fargo only targeted financially unsophisticated customers, they could have gotten away with this for a long time. And I agree, there should be jail time. Even for “victimless cases” ($0 no-fee credit cards that would slightly improve your credit rating due to a better utilization ratio) that’s still a violation of the law. And another concern… how does an ex-customer protect their credit from Wells Fargo? In Canada, my former bank still does soft checks on my credit. I don’t know why. I’m not a customer, so why would they care about my credit rating? If I went back to them for a loan or mortgage or something, that might be a good time to do a hard check and get the info anyway. Maybe it’s legal in Canada but illegal in the states. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/46 "2016-09-09T12:15:01Z")
How do I convince them that my car loan account was fake and should just be eliminated? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/47 "2016-09-09T12:50:12Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Not exactly the same thing. Historically, if you didn’t have a bank account, you could cash a check at a branch of the bank of the account from which the check is drawn. The bank would still serving a customer; the customer in this case is the person who wrote the check, not the person cashing it. A bank will still cash a check drawn on it and written to a non-customer. The payee may have to go through onerous ID or fingerprinting requirements, they may even charge a fee, but [banks will cash an “on us” check](https://www.mybanktracker.com/news/check-cashing-fees-top-banks). > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Invalid analogy. Plenty of other banks have no account requirement to issue change. Wells Fargo is the only one I’ve been in which does. Perfectly valid analogy. Some restaurants will give away food if one asks, but don’t go in expecting it. We’ve been through this before, it costs a bank money to keep cash on hand. They can’t invest cash that is sitting in the branches. Why should they incur those costs for no payback? They certainly can, and some do, but to expect it is misguided. There is a LOT wrong with banks, as the Well fiasco indicates, but this one makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/48 "2016-09-09T13:41:55Z")
I read an article about this this morning, that I unfortunately can’t find anymore (published in some Californian paper, I believe), that made extremely clear that employees acted this way under extreme pressure and generally with their management at best looking the other way, at worst encouraging the practice. The article was in fact more about work conditions at the Wells Fargo than about defrauded customers. As for why complaints didn’t put an end to this practice, it was mentioned that phone calls from people complaining weren’t listed, so that customer service surveys wouldn’t look bad. The fact that management supported the practice also probably helped a lot. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/49 "2016-09-09T13:58:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _World of Class Warfare_. Really, no contest. No _Left Wing Commander_? _Counterculture-Strike_? _Red Deadhead Redemption_? ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/50 "2016-09-09T14:07:30Z")
Those fired for creating fake accounts should be hired soon by Ashley Madison… ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/51 "2016-09-09T14:20:41Z")
One employee stealing from customers is a bad employee. _Five thousand_ employees stealing from customers is fucking business model. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/52 "2016-09-09T15:23:27Z")
Well, thanks Obama… That was not sarcastic. Well, we have to realize that it was the Consumers Financial Protection Bureau that checked and fined WF. Now imagine if Trump had managed that. He would had fined the loser \*\*customers. \*\* :mad: ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/53 "2016-09-09T15:35:33Z")
Yep I went in to meet with a WF banker about my accounts, they took care of that business to my satisfaction. But during the meeting the banker asked me if I wanted a WF credit card, I said no. A few days later a WF credit card shows up in the mail. That pissed me off. I never activated it just to see what would happen. All I ever heard about it was occasional letters or new cards. I just filed them away. Now YEARS later I finally got a notice that my credit card account would be closed in June if I didn’t use it. HA, I finally outwaited them! Or so I thought, it’s still listed in my accounts. I know I could just call them and get it canceled, I’m mostly just curious. But yeah from everything I read the bankers were under big pressure to open a certain number of accounts, so I assume that’s why I got involuntarily issued a credit card. How much do you want to bet that the thousands of fired employees were not the bosses and supervisors that were implementing the quotas? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/54 "2016-09-09T15:44:24Z")
I can definitely see how this could happen. In fact, I’ve seen precisely that happen on a bit of a more limited basis. Before I bailed from Cube-World, I worked for a really big east coast bank in the department that ran the employee incentives. We were constantly amazed at how diligently people worked to game the system when if they would have just focused that energy on their actual jobs they would have been rockstars. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/55 "2016-09-09T15:53:29Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Perfectly valid analogy. Some restaurants will give away food if one asks, but don’t go in expecting it. Restaurant owners giving food to homeless shelters is a completely different fruit. There’s no reason to expect free food from a single restaurant whereas there _is_ a reason to expect any bank (other than Wells Fargo) to give a roll of quarters in exchange for ten bucks to anyone who asks. At least until the vast majority of banks decide to follow the Wells Fargo model and try hard to make customers out of non-customers. ---
**Author:** ![Brad\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8dc957/32.png) [@Brad\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brad_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/56 "2016-09-09T16:30:12Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > A bank will still cash a check drawn on it and written to a non-customer. The payee may have to go through onerous ID or fingerprinting requirements, they may even charge a fee, but [banks will cash an “on us” check](https://www.mybanktracker.com/news/check-cashing-fees-top-banks). > > Perfectly valid analogy. Some restaurants will give away food if one asks, but don’t go in expecting it. We’ve been through this before, it costs a bank money to keep cash on hand. They can’t invest cash that is sitting in the branches. Why should they incur those costs for no payback? They certainly can, and some do, but to expect it is misguided. There is a LOT wrong with banks, as the Well fiasco indicates, but this one makes sense. I have been refused at Bank of America for not being a customer (but they’d open an account and give me 1/2 the money on the spot). I actually had to call my customer, while in the bank and explain their bank wouldn’t honor their check. The situation was fixed very quickly and I walked out with my money. I’ve heard it’s gotten better though, my daughter just cashed a check there, same branch, 10 years later, and no problems, no fee. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/57 "2016-09-09T16:55:23Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/58 "2016-09-09T23:31:45Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Yep I went in to meet with a WF banker about my accounts, they took care of that business to my satisfaction. But during the meeting the banker asked me if I wanted a WF credit card, I said no. A few days later a WF credit card shows up in the mail. > > . . . Ha! I bank with WF. A few years ago, I went in to purchase a CD, and the rep tried to sell me on some kind of new-fangled account and I said no. A few days later, the new-fangled account was opened anyway. I promptly went in to complain and they closed it. More recently, I went in to have a cashier’s check cut to pay off a loan out of my 401(k). I was sat down and a rep tried to sell me on something or other - I don’t know what, because soon as I heard the sales spiel starting I said “Not interested.” I’m surprised that that didn’t result in an unauthorized account being opened as well. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/59 "2016-09-10T01:31:51Z")
A few years back, when all this was happening, an aggressive salesman at WF tried to get my 96 year old mother to open all sorts of accounts and wouldn’t take no for an answer. When she told me about it I got his ass fired and a written and phoned apology from the manager of the branch. I hope if they just transferred his ass that he got canned now. Little fuckhead. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361/60 "2016-09-10T01:41:01Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Well, that’s because people with the power to create billion dollar scams usually insulate themselves with layer upon layer upon layer of financial obfuscation and plausible deniability. That’s the way wealthy criminals operate, and why they so often seem to be above the law. I don’t think it’s implausible for a scam that widespread to not have the loopholes written into the laws in the first place with a nod, handshake and substantial campaign contribution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-5-300-wells-fargo-employees-fired-for-creating-over-2-million-phony-accounts/765361.md?page=4)