# CNN doesn't like the US 1st amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392 "2014-06-22T21:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/201 "2014-07-01T15:11:00Z")
Yeah, desperate attempts to maintain plausible deniability usually are. But they’re, yanno, _plausible_ bullshit. Or at least plausible enough. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/202 "2014-07-01T16:47:44Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Boy, that’s some USDA, prime bullshit right there. Easily as good as any I’ve seen put up here by the other side! To really make it fair for you tho I’ve got it, No IDs but all voters must wear blindfolds while in the booth, that way no one will know who voted for who, including. The voter themselves, and all will be well! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/203 "2014-07-01T16:52:42Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > You don’t know that! One could conclude that the group wishing to require ID only wishes to validate votes by making sure everyone gets one vote. The dead get none and the possibility of voter fraud is eliminated or at least curtailed, > > Your assumption could just as easily be that voter fraud is rampant yet unchecked and un reported as you wish it to be so as to disenfranchise a group of voters by making sure they have no faith that their vote will count! If the pro-ID group are genuinely interested in eliminating fraud, why do they focus on in-person voting (where fraud is essentially nonexistent), and ignore absentee voting (where fraud does occur)? Might one reasonably conclude that it’s because the majority of absentee voters are Republican? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/204 "2014-07-01T17:03:11Z")
Keyboard Tourette’s, is a hell of. A problem. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/205 "2014-07-01T17:12:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the pro-ID group are genuinely interested in eliminating fraud, why do they focus on in-person voting (where fraud is essentially nonexistent), and ignore absentee voting (where fraud does occur)? > > Might one reasonably conclude that it’s because the majority of absentee voters are Republican? > [@](#): > > (where fraud does occur) proof please. it’s not my fault that the Military is mostly conservative,:smack: JK bring that up when you figure out you want to be on the side of Voter ID! I don’t know, and for me I can vote early but am still required to show ID when doing so,(not sure about absentee in Texas ), what confidence does it instill in my rights when others don’t have to undergo the same scrutiny I have too? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/206 "2014-07-01T17:16:46Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > proof please. > > it’s not my fault that the Military is mostly conservative,:smack: JK > > bring that up when you figure out you want to be on the side of Voter ID! > > I don’t know, and for me I can vote early but am still required to show ID when doing so,(not sure about absentee in Texas ), what confidence does it instill in my rights when others don’t have to undergo the same scrutiny I have too? I don’t give a shit about your “confidence”. I don’t give a shit about how you “feel”. I care about the effect these laws have and why they were created. Tell ya what. You find more voter fraud than the Bush administration did (about 120 cases in 5 years, most of which ended up being simple mistakes by felons or immigrants who didn’t know they weren’t allowed to vote), and I’ll give a shit about your confidence. Because right now, you’re bitching about the bogeyman in your closet when we’ve already opened up the doors and shined a fucking light on it. “No, really, I’m scawed!” Piss off, you troglodyte. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/207 "2014-07-01T17:19:12Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > proof please. [Here you go](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/#) - and from Fox News, no less. > [@](#): > > I don’t know, and for me I can vote early but am still required to show ID when doing so,(not sure about absentee in Texas ), what confidence does it instill in my rights when others don’t have to undergo the same scrutiny I have too? Beats me. Perhaps you should ask your local Republican officials why they aren’t doing anything about absentee balloting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/208 "2014-07-01T18:03:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Perhaps you should ask your local Republican officials why they aren’t doing anything about absentee balloting. In Oregon and Washington, the governments decided that absentee balloting is more cost-effective than operating thousands of polling places for a single day (or a few days). I think it is possible to file a vote in person, but very few people do, the ballot arrives at their home automagically, weeks in advance, giving the voter time to study the down-ballot races and issues, the voters fill them out and mail them in or drop them at a ballot box. No ID issues (except perhaps for homeless people), makes more sense than the way other states operate. Now, as far as fraud, I have not heard much about that. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/209 "2014-07-01T20:02:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I don’t give a shit about your “confidence”. I don’t give a shit about how you “feel”. I care about the effect these laws have and why they were created. Tell ya what. You find more voter fraud than the Bush administration did (about 120 cases in 5 years, most of which ended up being simple mistakes by felons or immigrants who didn’t know they weren’t allowed to vote), and I’ll give a shit about your confidence. Because right now, you’re bitching about the bogeyman in your closet when we’ve already opened up the doors and shined a fucking light on it. “No, really, I’m scawed!” Piss off, you troglodyte. and there you have it, My point is nothing, because I am conservative, while your point is everything, because you are not! As a former, retired, disabled, Breaker of things, I don’t care how you Feel either, I only know that to disenfranchise someone’s rights by not administering them equally ( some must show ID while others don’t) you are not giving equal protection under the law! I do however like that you acknowledge that there is voter fraud, just not some that you think I would care bout, I care about voter fraud no matter who it concerns! > [@](#): > > Beats me. Perhaps you should ask your local Republican officials why they aren’t doing anything about absentee balloting. absentee voting isn’t a problem where I live as far as I know, but I like that you think those votes deserve more scrutiny since they seem to be more conservative, or are you saying voting deserves more scrutiny because of fraud in some cases regardless of demographics or types of ballots? sounds good, lets fix it all! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/210 "2014-07-01T20:55:14Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > and there you have it, My point is nothing, because I am conservative, while your point is everything, because you are not! Well, no. Your point is nothing, because it’s utterly asinine. If your “confidence” in your rights is compromised by the potential of people to do bad things (despite the fact that it almost never happens and has never made a difference), then you’re a moron. And if your proposed solution is the equivalent of never letting an Arab on the plane to stop terrorism, then you’re a complete and total fuckwit. > [@](#): > > I only know that to disenfranchise someone’s rights by not administering them equally ( some must show ID while others don’t) you are not giving equal protection under the law! Good news - I think _nobody_ should need photo ID to vote. > [@](#): > > I do however like that you acknowledge that there is voter fraud, just not some that you think I would care bout, I care about voter fraud no matter who it concerns! When you are presented with an anthill in your perfectly manicured backyard, there is such a thing as _making it worse_. For example: if you attempted to remove the anthill by carpet-bombing the neighborhood, you would be _making the problem worse_. Sure, the anthill might be gone, but it sure ain’t making your lawn prettier. Around 10% of the voting-age public in the USA has no photo ID. Voter impersonation fraud (that is, the _only_ type of voter fraud that voter ID would stop) has been shown to have happened [10 times since 2000](http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/). Let’s do a little math, shall we? In that time frame, there were 146 million registered voters. This comes out to about one voter impersonation fraud case per 15 million people, or a rate of 0.0000066%. Of those without ID, what percentage of them would have to want to vote in order for voter ID to stop making sense? Ah. Right. Something like 0.00007% of that 14.6 million. Or, you know, just about 1000 people. I bet I could damn near find that many people mentioned just in news articles about voter fraud! Voter ID is therefore an absolutely asinine proposal. It solves a complete non-problem while simultaneously disenfranchising voters. > [@](#): > > absentee voting isn’t a problem where I live as far as I know, From that same article. > [@](#): > > ``` > There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases. > > ``` Whoops! Absentee ballot fraud is not just a bigger issue that voter impersonation fraud, it’s literally _49 times bigger_! There were _49 times more cases in the last 14 years!_ Jesus, this is like bitching and moaning about the monster in your closet while ignoring the odd-shaped mole on your arm! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/211 "2014-07-01T21:22:34Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > absentee voting isn’t a problem where I live as far as I know, but I like that you think those votes deserve more scrutiny since they seem to be more conservative, or are you saying voting deserves more scrutiny because of fraud in some cases regardless of demographics or types of ballots? sounds good, lets fix it all! Is in-person voter fraud a problem where you live “as far as you know”? ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/212 "2014-07-01T22:39:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is in-person voter fraud a problem where you live “as far as you know”? We have to show ID to vote so no, not that I know of. > [@](#): > > .Voter ID is therefore an absolutely asinine proposal. It solves a complete non-problem while simultaneously disenfranchising voters. it’s not just a proposal, it is the law in some places, and legal! To make everyone give up their ID for only 10% is far more asinine than to expect the 10% without, to obtain one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/213 "2014-07-01T23:08:22Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > We have to show ID to vote so no, not that I know of. And do you have any evidence that it was a problem before the voter ID law? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/214 "2014-07-01T23:09:15Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > To make everyone give up their ID for only 10% is far more asinine than to expect the 10% without, to obtain one. I’m unclear on why it is not more asinine to disenfranchise 10% of the voters in order to reduce a voter fraud rate of less than 1/1,000,000. And while I’m at it, since it always grates on my last nerve, I don’t care whether the right to vote is implicit, explicit, or even simply assumed, the right to vote is the basic right in a democracy. All other rights, privileges, and obligations flow from, and are dependent on, that basic right, and without that right a democracy is that in name only. If you’re that worried about fraud, every state I’ve ever lived in makes provisions for poll watchers. Go do that if you want to combat voter fraud, instead of swallowing wholesale the lies of those who prefer to remove the basic right of democracy. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/215 "2014-07-01T23:37:25Z")
With great power comes great responsibility , getting an ID is little to ask for the privelidge ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/216 "2014-07-01T23:42:56Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > With great power comes great responsibility , getting an ID is little to ask for the privelidge It’s not a “privelidge”, you fucking moron. It is a right. It is the basic right. That said, OK, let’s see . . . Every citizen of the United States, at birth or naturalization, gets a free National ID Card, good for buying cigarettes or beer, using as an ID with your check, or voting. You OK with that? ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/217 "2014-07-01T23:45:49Z")
What, besides the SS card they already get? Why not just use that? ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/218 "2014-07-01T23:46:55Z")
The myth of no ID is long gone ! You can’t even transact a welfare payment without one! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/219 "2014-07-01T23:54:29Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > What, besides the SS card they already get? Why not just use that? Why not? I’m OK with that. That would miss out on those who don’t have an SS card, but that’s certainly of an order of magnitude fewer than those who don’t have a picture ID. It would only miss out on naturalized citizens who have never worked in the U.S., and we can certainly start issuing SS numbers to them automatically upon naturalization. So you support being able to use a Social Security Card as an ID for voting? ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/220 "2014-07-01T23:56:15Z")
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