# CNN doesn't like the US 1st amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392 "2014-06-22T21:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/221 "2014-07-02T00:10:11Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > Yes OK, now how do you eliminate those who hold Social Security cards who are not citizens? Oops, guess we’re back to a National ID Card. Or maybe a passport. We could issue free passports to all U.S. citizens, upon birth or naturalization. Or, you know, we could keep on doing what we’ve been doing all along, which is to take people’s word for it. Which results in a voter fraud rate that is so miniscule it is lost in the noise of natural data errors. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/222 "2014-07-02T00:25:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > OK, now how do you eliminate those who hold Social Security cards who are not citizens? Oops, guess we’re back to a National ID Card. > > Or maybe a passport. We could issue free passports to all U.S. citizens, upon birth or naturalization. > > Or, you know, we could keep on doing what we’ve been doing all along, which is to take people’s word for it. Which results in a voter fraud rate that is so miniscule it is lost in the noise of natural data errors. You don’t think they can mark an ID card resident voter or not? They mark them minor for underage people all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/223 "2014-07-02T04:33:05Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > it’s not just a proposal, it is the law in some places, and legal! To make everyone give up their ID for only 10% is far more asinine than to expect the 10% without, to obtain one. 😕 I know there are words here, and I know they’re arranged in such a way that they’re _supposed_ to make sense… But they don’t. Can anyone help me? “To make everyone give up their ID for only 10%”… What the hell are you talking about? Nobody has to give up their ID, we just don’t check for ID when voting. So far, this system has worked pretty damn well - 10 voter impersonation fraud cases in the last 14 years. And of course, getting ID is always a walk in the park… It’s not like some people live, say, more than 10 miles away from the nearest DMV. And it’s not like, I dunno, people without photo ID _don’t have a fucking driver’s license_. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/224 "2014-07-02T04:36:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 😕 > > I know there are words here, and I know they’re arranged in such a way that they’re _supposed_ to make sense… But they don’t. It’s the butterfly ballot of posts. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/225 "2014-07-02T07:54:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 😕 > > I know there are words here, and I know they’re arranged in such a way that they’re _supposed_ to make sense… But they don’t. Can anyone help me? “To make everyone give up their ID for only 10%”… What the hell are you talking about? Nobody has to give up their ID, we just don’t check for ID when voting. So far, this system has worked pretty damn well - 10 voter impersonation fraud cases in the last 14 years. And of course, getting ID is always a walk in the park… It’s not like some people live, say, more than 10 miles away from the nearest DMV. And it’s not like, I dunno, people without photo ID _don’t have a fucking driver’s license_. People are so trustworthy that they can buy beer and cigarettes without an ID all the time! Why wouldn’t we want to let them vote without an ID as well? Silly me, oh wait, the common sign is, we ID up to 26 YOA, that’s darn sure telling them how trustworthy the American people are, your not even smart enough to know your not old enough to buy, so even tho you are probably old enough, you still have to show me proof, oh your voting, then never mind! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/226 "2014-07-02T08:59:44Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > People are so trustworthy that they can buy beer and cigarettes without an ID all the time! Why wouldn’t we want to let them vote without an ID as well? Silly me, oh wait, the common sign is, we ID up to 26 YOA, that’s darn sure telling them how trustworthy the American people are, your not even smart enough to know your not old enough to buy, so even tho you are probably old enough, you still have to show me proof, oh your voting, then never mind! :smack: In the average district, how many times would one person need to fraudulently vote to change anything about the election? Or hell - let’s assume a conspiracy of 10 people, which is as big as I consider reasonable to assume without detection. Answer: far more times than is realistic without drawing a ton of attention to oneself. This is the sneaky little secret of confidence in voting: one single vote does not matter. At all. Part of the reason we end up with so little voter impersonation fraud is because it’s _fucking dumb_. You risk felony charges for what amounts to a tiny drop in the bucket - even in the very closest presidential election in recent memory, it’d be one 700th of what you need to tip the scales. And this plays itself out in the data - there have been a whopping 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud in 6 elections. The restriction on beer and cigarettes are personal - we don’t want underaged people to have access to these things due to their innate harm (although I think the current drinking age limitation is asinine - take a lesson from Germany), and we ask for ID to show that they are, in fact, old enough to drink/smoke. Driving is a public health issue - getting behind the wheel of a car puts you in a position where you could kill not only yourself but many other people, and we restrict that based on a license to ensure that only those qualified can do so. But voting? Again, voter impersonation fraud and multiple voting is just _dumb_. It doesn’t happen because it makes no fucking sense. And of course, there are further controls on voting than simply going into a voting booth and saying, “Hi, I’d like to vote” - something missing in your analogy. None of this is new, of course. Spend some time in the 100-page voter ID thread and you’ll see all of this repeated ad nauseum for a person who cares about as much about the truth as Ann Coulter does. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/227 "2014-07-02T14:00:47Z")
There’s also the issue that we STILL provably have tons of underage drinking (and driving). Seems like hardly a month goes by without some news story about stupid drunk teenagers. And busted liquor store or bartenders who sell to them. This problem unequivocably exists. Not so voter impersonation fraud. Show me the problem exists in anything even remotely resembling underage drinking (even as little as 5% of the same level), and then maybe I’ll agree the situations are analogous. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/228 "2014-07-02T14:49:41Z")
nm . ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/229 "2014-07-02T15:07:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > In the average district, how many times would one person need to fraudulently vote to change anything about the election? Or hell - let’s assume a conspiracy of 10 people, which is as big as I consider reasonable to assume without detection. Answer: far more times than is realistic without drawing a ton of attention to oneself. This is the sneaky little secret of confidence in voting: one single vote does not matter. At all. Part of the reason we end up with so little voter impersonation fraud is because it’s _fucking dumb_. You risk felony charges for what amounts to a tiny drop in the bucket - even in the very closest presidential election in recent memory, it’d be one 700th of what you need to tip the scales. And this plays itself out in the data - there have been a whopping 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud in 6 elections. > > The restriction on beer and cigarettes are personal - we don’t want underaged people to have access to these things due to their innate harm (although I think the current drinking age limitation is asinine - take a lesson from Germany), and we ask for ID to show that they are, in fact, old enough to drink/smoke. Driving is a public health issue - getting behind the wheel of a car puts you in a position where you could kill not only yourself but many other people, and we restrict that based on a license to ensure that only those qualified can do so. But voting? Again, voter impersonation fraud and multiple voting is just _dumb_. It doesn’t happen because it makes no fucking sense. And of course, there are further controls on voting than simply going into a voting booth and saying, “Hi, I’d like to vote” - something missing in your analogy. > > None of this is new, of course. Spend some time in the 100-page voter ID thread and you’ll see all of this repeated ad nauseum for a person who cares about as much about the truth as Ann Coulter does. So we don’t trust people to be honest about their age or if they have drank to much to drive, but absolutely we trust them to not commit fraud while voting. I’ve posted here before that I think voting is the single most important thing you can do, voting removed 20 different contraceptives from hundreds of thousands of people just 6 years ago, voting has the power to kill millions of people or make their life better . For many people on this planet , they voted for the first time because of this country, yet they figure out ways to make sure their own people don’t improperly do so with stain on a finger or some other tell tale sign that they have or have not done so already yet you trivialize the very act while defending everyone’s right to do it without ID? Today thousands of possibly illegal votes are being reviewed as suspect in a Mississippi runoff election by who? Oh by democrats that went and voted in a republican primary illegally after already voting in the dem primary, no need for ID there? Oh they said they didn’t know they couldn’t vote but even if that is true, an ID could have saved them, and saved a ton of taxpayer money by letting those people know they were not eligible to vote in the race in question. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/230 "2014-07-02T15:18:16Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > So we don’t trust people to be honest about their age or if they have drank to much to drive, but absolutely we trust them to not commit fraud while voting. It has worked out pretty well so far, at least as far as voter fraud. The underage drinking and drunk driving bit seems to be coming up short. There are arrests all the time for those. Wheras voter fraud seems to be a pure neo-con bogeyman. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/231 "2014-07-02T16:57:47Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > Today thousands of possibly illegal votes are being reviewed as suspect in a Mississippi runoff election by who? Oh by democrats that went and voted in a republican primary illegally after already voting in the dem primary, no need for ID there? Oh they said they didn’t know they couldn’t vote but even if that is true, an ID could have saved them, and saved a ton of taxpayer money by letting those people know they were not eligible to vote in the race in question. Mississippi [_has_ a voter ID requirement](http://msvoterid.ms.gov/). In fact, this primary is the first election where it was in effect. Of course, I fully expect you to ignore this, since you’ve ignored all the other citations that have proven you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/232 "2014-07-02T18:09:16Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > I’ve posted here before that I think voting is the single most important thing you can do, voting removed 20 different contraceptives from hundreds of thousands of people just 6 years ago, **voting has the power to kill millions of people** or make their life better . Can you tell me where I could vote to kill millions of people? 'Cause there are a whole bunch on my list and it would certainly help speed up the process. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/233 "2014-07-02T19:08:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Mississippi [_has_ a voter ID requirement](http://msvoterid.ms.gov/). In fact, this primary is the first election where it was in effect. > > Of course, I fully expect you to ignore this, since you’ve ignored all the other citations that have proven you wrong. so once voter Id laws went into effect, suddenly a lot of fraud showed up? crazy!! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/234 "2014-07-02T19:09:05Z")
Dibs on the young widows! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/235 "2014-07-02T19:13:08Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > So we don’t trust people to be honest about their age or if they have drank to much to drive, but absolutely we trust them to not commit fraud while voting. > I’ve posted here before that I think voting is the single most important thing you can do, voting removed 20 different contraceptives from hundreds of thousands of people just 6 years ago, voting has the power to kill millions of people or make their life better . Yes, a group of people voting can have a profound effect on the nation. Now do you understand the difference between a voting populace and a single vote? Again, you’re facing a felony charge for a drop in the bucket. And of course, we don’t “absolutely trust them”. Where do you think these convictions keep coming from? Why do you think we end up with investigations of voter fraud again and again? You think the Democracy Fairy comes down and sprinkles magical “know who committed the crime” dust on the attorney general? Voting is important. An individual vote is _not_. And the only people stupid enough to risk serious felony charges over a single vote are dumbfucks like James O’Keefe who are doing it to make a vacuous, specious political point. > [@](#): > > Today thousands of possibly illegal votes are being reviewed as suspect in a Mississippi runoff election by who? Oh by democrats that went and voted in a republican primary illegally after already voting in the dem primary, no need for ID there? Oh they said they didn’t know they couldn’t vote but even if that is true, an ID could have saved them, and saved a ton of taxpayer money by letting those people know they were not eligible to vote in the race in question. How many of those votes would have been stopped by voter ID? No, seriously, this is a real question. _How many. Of. Those. Votes. Would. Voter. ID. Have. Stopped._ Answer that question. Because as said upthread (which you appear to have promptly ignored), almost none of the fraud is voter impersonation - the _only_ kind of voter fraud ID will stop. …Oh wait. What’s that? [Mississippi has a new voter ID law that came into effect before this election?](http://msvoterid.ms.gov/) And it did _nothing_ to stop the alleged fraud? Color me fucking shocked. :rolleyes: See, this is exactly what I’ve been saying - _voter ID does not stop voter fraud!_ It stops one tiny facet of voter fraud that just about fucking _nobody_ is dumb enough to actually try with or without ID laws! Please, show us a fucking sign of _some sort_ that you are interested in something resembling rational thought and admit that you were wrong, or just fuck off. (Oh, and for the record? This example seems like yet another case of sour grapes, where the idiot loser decides that the best recourse is to scream “VOTER FRAUD!!!” with [absolutely no evidence that it happened](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/265433961.html). A waste of everyone’s fucking time.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/236 "2014-07-02T19:13:30Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > so once voter Id laws went into effect, suddenly a lot of fraud showed up? crazy!! It’s been explained to you, time and again, that most of the cases of fraud concerning the voting are either honest mistakes, or have occurred regarding ABSENTEE BALLOTS. Requiring ID for voting won’t solve the issue. From ABC news: > [@](#): > > Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas. How does requiring ID solve the _actual_ problems, and not the ones you insist are real but aren’t? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/237 "2014-07-02T19:18:17Z")
> [@WWhiskey](#): > > so once voter Id laws went into effect, suddenly a lot of fraud showed up? crazy!! You cannot be serious. [http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/265433961.html](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/265433961.html) > [@](#): > > JACKSON, Miss. — Chris McDaniel has presented no evidence to support his claim that voter fraud pushed Senate incumbent Thad Cochran to victory in Mississippi’s GOP runoff. And without evidence, the tea party-backed hopeful is going to have a tough time overturning Cochran’s nearly 6,800-vote win. > > But a week after the balloting, McDaniel isn’t giving up. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/238 "2014-07-02T19:50:54Z")
Well there you go! Good thing you didn’t call me Shirley! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/239 "2014-07-02T20:34:06Z")
You HAVE to be doing this on purpose. There’s no way a living, breathing person can be that stupid naturally. I’d say you’re dumber than a bag of hammers, but that’s an insult to bags and hammers. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/240 "2014-07-02T20:44:56Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > You HAVE to be doing this on purpose. There’s no way a living, breathing person can be that stupid naturally. I’d say you’re dumber than a bag of hammers, but that’s an insult to bags and hammers. It is seriously funny that you don’t get it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392.md?page=13)