# CNN doesn't like the US 1st amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392 "2014-06-22T21:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/161 "2014-06-27T03:05:48Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Thanks. I will set aside the fact that the site seems to be the output of a coalition of right-wing groups, and assume (rightly or not) that all the content is legit. It’s merely a listing of news articles about voter fraud. Read the articles, make up your own mind. You can decide every single source is lying, I suppose. > [@](#): > > The first thing I notice, however, is that the majority of the headlines, and several of your references, describe cases where people have been prosecuted for attempted vote fraud. It would seem, therefore, that the system seems to be working, at least to some extent. So why the urgency for voter ID again? Well, apparently quite a few people here believe there is no voter fraud. I posted the link as counterpoint to that position. Why the urgency? Because, as in every category of crime, those who get caught are always a tiny minority of those that commit the that crime. Surely you are not positing that the list shows that every fraudulent voter is being caught? > [@](#): > > Regarding the WaPo poll, yes, 70-some-odd percent were in favor of voter ID, but it must be noted that nearly as many of those polled considered potential voter suppression a significant an issue as they did vote fraud (41 vs 49%) What that says to me is that people want Voter ID and they want it done in a way that does not suppress potential voters. Makes sense and I believe that to be a doable thing. However, if you never start, you never finish. > [@](#): > > As for O’Keefe, he’s a proven liar and fraud. If what you want to convince me is that you have a fairly weak argument, by all means keep trotting him out. The tape doesn’t lie though. No matter what one thinks of O’Keefe (and I have problems with his methodology) the point is he did get those ballots. Clearly, he should not have been able to do so and no one else should be able to do so either. The fact that it’s O’Keefe is immaterial. The point is….someone was able to lie about who they actually were and to get ballots. That has to stop, don’t you agree? > [@](#): > > Just so we’re clear, I don’t have any major personal problem with voter ID tied to a national ID. It should be free to all, it should be easy, logistically, to get (no lengthy trips to the nearest issuing agency) and should not require a signficant expense (for persons below the poverty line) to obtain the supporting documentation required. The problem with many of the voter ID initiatives I’ve heard about so far is that they seem to be heavily biased against the economically disadvantaged. Unless this issue is addressed in a satisfactory way, I will not support them. It’s pretty simple really. The people you are the most concerned about are usually in some sort of government program. Medical, housing, food stamps…whatever. Should be quite simple reach them through such programs and to verify who they actually are. Then just issue them a free, photo, valid government ID. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/162 "2014-06-27T03:07:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Spakovsky? Buahahahahahahaha!!! > > Why don’t you just cite the Weekly World News? You’ve got proof the book is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/163 "2014-06-27T03:09:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > By the way, why _not_ let felons vote? I can understand security concerns, so I can see denying the franchise during incarceration, but once released and with society presumably wanting them to rehabilitate and become productive responsible citizens, isn’t this important civic duty encouraging them to take an interest in the politics of their communities in a nonviolent fashion? I agree, actually. If they are safe enough to release from prison, they are entitled to ALL their Constitutional rights. I’m sure you’ll agree that released felons should be allowed to legally purchase firearms as well. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/164 "2014-06-27T03:11:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Sure, but I’m certain the guy I was talking to would not want that to happen but is purely concerned with the disruption by rampant voter fraud of the electoral process, nudge nudge wink wink. As I pointed out, I’m in favor of free ID and I think the disadvantaged have more than enough contact with governmental programs that it should be quite easy to do. Preferably at the State level but however it works out best and fastest. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/165 "2014-06-27T03:12:33Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Oh, come on. He’s just an honest, hard-working, God-fearing, true blue American who is deeply concerned that somewhere, in this great nation of ours, a brown person might be voting. > . This is the old race card, isn’t it? Seems like people like you have nothing else. It’s gotten to be laughable. Overused, it lost its punch. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/166 "2014-06-27T04:07:46Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > The simple truth is that the US affords the _opportunity_ for a good lifestyle _if you have the will to work for it_. These Social Darwinist myths emerged, and only really accurately applied, in an era when organized labor was strong, and after decades of violent struggle for things like decent pay, job safety, job security, other working conditions, and so on. After the Gilded Era, when my great-grandparents came to the US, they and people like them (1/3 of whom returned to Europe, btw) found oppression again, and fought against it. We don’t have weekends because some politician thought it would be a great idea, or because of the magical “free market,” we have such things because workers were willing to stand up to thugs the bosses hired to gun down any troublemakers. In those days, people like you were called “[Scissorbills](http://www.folkarchive.de/scissor.html),” or, alternatively, "[Mr. Block."](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Block) > [@](#): > > Even at our lower levels, this lifestyle is the envy and desire of many in the world. The proof is coming in huge waves over our southern borders right now. Slaves in 1820 were better off than their predecessors had been in 1720. Does that make a good case for slavery? Slavery’s defenders did use that excuse. You should know that those “huge waves” have diminished greatly in recent years. This is due to many factors, one of them being the decline of the US middle class since the Reagan years, as neoliberalism’s toxic effects took hold. Also, do you know why there has been so much migration from _some of_ Latin America over the years? When you demolish someone’s country, they are going to flee. When NAFTA threw millions of Mexican farmers out of work, it added to the country’s unemployment problem, forcing many Mexicans into the migrant stream. (All their remittances were a huge boost to Mexico, thus lowering emigration, but it never had to happen like that.) When the US government [overthrows governments](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-15383476), supports [fascist](http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/05/20/bum-rap-the-u-s-role-in-guatemalan-genocide/) [death-squad regimes](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGwQFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.gwu.edu%2F~nsarchiv%2Fnsa%2Fpublications%2Felsalvador2%2F&ei=ROysU9O0G4eeqAaHooDoAw&usg=AFQjCNFYA6NmQ-1qLoqvf372JP-Eq648lg&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k) to [ensure](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Famerica.aljazeera.com%2Fopinions%2F2014%2F1%2Fu-s-ambassador-humanrightsviolationshonduras.html&ei=KOusU67kAoOUqAbas4LADQ&usg=AFQjCNF3DYWimNcbgTJ5NgMVOkAVvBSTPg&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k) that [feudal societies](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Frobert-naiman%2Fwikileaks-honduras-state_b_789282.html&ei=KOusU67kAoOUqAbas4LADQ&usg=AFQjCNEHOE3GZExJfFqfgF1MSfajv6OiAQ&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k) [stay that way](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CF0QFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.du.edu%2Fkorbel%2Fhrhw%2Fresearchdigest%2Flatinamerica%2Fhonduras.pdf&ei=_eusU5vOI8yOqAbiioKoAw&usg=AFQjCNHEUjc-NstYZnifkB3pL-NHZqrK0w&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k), hires terrorists to destroy clinics and schools and the people who use them, and otherwise acts as an utterly malignant force, people flee the scene of such carnage. Why do you never hear about immigrants from Costa Rica (a welfare state with much more opportunity than most of its neighbors), Belize, or even Panama? The US government usually left them to their own devices, with brief exceptions. > [@](#): > > This whole privilege nonsense is nothing more than another excuse for failing to strive. Amongst those you would classify as having no “privilege” there are many who have worked hard and enjoyed levels of success from extreme to moderate. That’s normal for any population, a bell curve if you will. No, this is Randroid nonsense, primarily spouted and believed by the (relatively) privileged, even when they have much more in common with the rest of the population “beneath them” than they do with the ruling classes. > [@](#): > > If there is a solidified social mobility stemming from the “neoliberal era” it may be that our programs have removed motivation to strive for something better and settle for something at a lower level that does not require one to work. No, there is more solidified social _immobility_, since neoliberalism removes the achievements of years of struggle and works towards a society of [welfare for the rich, and free market discipline for everybody else. Did you misunderstand me?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qUPfOr6fcU) > [@](#): > > The truthful bottom line is that if a person is determined to succeed in the US, anyone can do so. To the extent that this was true in the past, it is much less true now, and [less true than in societies that have not gone quite as far down the neoliberal tunnel.](http://www.oecd.org/tax/public-finance/chapter%205%20gfg%202010.pdf) > [@](#): > > If not, a person can sit on their ass, cry about “privilege”, blame everyone else and exist on the dole without working. > > Choice. Do you know that most “welfare” recipients have jobs? What you describe leads me to conclude that you don’t know what you’re talking about. I have a friend with a Master of Social Work degree. She saw somebody post something on Facebook like what you wrote, in the form of a rather cruel joke. Her response was that she’d be happy to have an honest conversation about poverty, if only you’re willing to listen. I think you should talk to a social worker. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/167 "2014-06-27T04:11:29Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > This is the old race card, isn’t it? Seems like people like you have nothing else. It’s gotten to be laughable. Overused, it lost its punch. When Republicans openly fret about demographic change, try to suppress voting in areas of color, and, most of all, go ballistic over a health care plan formerly promoted by Nixon, Dole, Romney, and the Heritage Foundation, what else can one conclude? Also, scroll up. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/168 "2014-06-27T04:15:06Z")
I missed one link. “[Hires terrorists to destroy schools and clinics…](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org%2F2004%2F06%2F05%2Fnicaragua-s-contra-war-reprised%2F&ei=WO-sU87yKOa68AGXtoHQDA&usg=AFQjCNE5cxmrg0x-a_-iFt8NhjNRsAs__Q&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2U)” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/169 "2014-06-27T05:45:28Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > This is the old race card, isn’t it? Seems like people like you have nothing else. It’s gotten to be laughable. Overused, it lost its punch. Oh, _do_ tell. Who, pray, are “people like me?” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/170 "2014-06-27T06:27:00Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > Well, you forgot the 2nd. What is your first language? You seem to not understand what “passive voice” is. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/171 "2014-06-27T07:04:29Z")
> [@jfreakofkorn](#): > > darth panda is kinda touchy w/ big words behind a computer … > > my wife is in retail ( and they ALWAYS HAVE TO ASK ) and this is a fact > > which i can careless ( because fighting behind a computer is senseless ) Just as a counter-point, I’ve worked in retail. “They” don’t always have to ask. I wasn’t obligated to do so. I would do it if the cash register prompted me to (which did not happen all the time), or if the purchases were rather pricey. I worked for Walmart, so people would buy expensive TVs and such, especially around Xmas. On those big purchases, I’d ask for ID. I got thanked for it about as often as I got :rolleyes:. But it was up to me. Obviously, your wife’s mileage varied. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/172 "2014-06-29T12:30:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What is your first language? You seem to not understand what “passive voice” is. What is your first language? You seem not to understand the difference between “implicit” and “explicit”. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/173 "2014-06-29T12:35:50Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > These Social Darwinist myths emerged, \ Some interesting reading there, thanks. I am not one to defend all US action/interaction in South America or around the globe for that matter. OTOH, I’m not that impressed by people like Chomsky either. I suppose we could go through each of your links and point/counterpoint them but I doubt any minds will be changed. There’s always two sides to every story. For the educational aspect of intergenerational mobility for instance, there’s the fact that we spend more than most countries per capita on youth education and still have a huge dropout rate in high school. It’s the old lead a horse to water problem and more money won’t necessarily fix it. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/174 "2014-06-29T12:40:38Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > When Republicans openly fret about demographic change, try to suppress voting in areas of color, and, most of all, go ballistic over a health care plan formerly promoted by Nixon, Dole, Romney, and the Heritage Foundation, what else can one conclude? One can easily conclude that asking a person, any person, to show they are a legitimate citizen of the nation they intend to influence with their implied right to vote is simple common sense and not voter suppression. One can easily conclude that opposition to a health care plan that is poorly planned, does not allow you to keep your doctor, does not allow you to keep your old health care plan’s benefits, that instead of lowering costs $2500 per family has instead raised it $2500 per family and is laden with pure pork for Big Pharma and Big Insurance is not race based but rather quality based. The plan sucks; that’s why there is opposition. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/175 "2014-06-29T12:41:41Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Oh, _do_ tell. Who, pray, are “people like me?” The group would include folks that make snarky little comments on a BBS without really participating in the discussion. See what I did there? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/176 "2014-06-29T13:00:48Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > See what I did there? Yes. Failed. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/177 "2014-06-29T13:23:06Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > One can easily conclude that asking a person, any person, to show they are a legitimate citizen of the nation they intend to influence with their implied right to vote is simple common sense and not voter suppression. Yes, lots of people can conclude that. One could also conclude that a group’s attempt to change the status quo by requiring IDs when previously they were not is being done with the intent to suppress the voting rights of groups which happen to vote against them. In this instance, the second is true. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/178 "2014-06-29T13:26:25Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > Well, apparently quite a few people here believe there is no voter fraud. I posted the link as counterpoint to that position. Nonsense. No one here that I can see believe there is _no_ voter fraud. What I see is an entirely reasonable debate over the relative seriousness of this supposed threat. Anyway, I actually agreed with your central point (free ID) and yet for some reason you still felt the need to hector me and ask a bunch of bullshit ‘gotcha’ questions: > [@](#): > > Surely you are not positing that the list shows that every fraudulent voter is being caught? Surely you are not claiming that there is some vast amount of unprosecuted voter fraud without being able to show a single case of successful, yet unprosecuted, voter fraud? And you really should let go of the point you think you are making by continually dragging O’Keefe into this discussion; it seriously weakens your already not-entirely-bulletproof argument. ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/179 "2014-06-30T00:06:32Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Yes. Failed. Nah, I thought I mirrored you fairly well. Success! ---
**Author:** ![UncaThomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@UncaThomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaThomas)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392/180 "2014-06-30T00:08:01Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Yes, lots of people can conclude that. One could also conclude that a group’s attempt to change the status quo by requiring IDs when previously they were not is being done with the intent to suppress the voting rights of groups which happen to vote against them. > > In this instance, the second is true. So I guess those ~70% of Democrats that favor voter ID in polls are intent on suppressing the voting rights of groups which happen to vote against them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-doesnt-like-the-us-1st-amendment/691392.md?page=10)