# CNN Reporter: "I don't know what part of Neverland Senator McCain is talking about.." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773 "2007-03-28T01:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/81 "2007-03-28T21:16:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] And as to your “point,” yeah, I’m expressing my opinion. [/quote] And hijacking. > [@](#): > > Still no idea which Dawkins book it was that you read? To tell the truth, I doubted that you did read one, and I think you’re avoiding a response because of the embarrassment that would follow from acknowledging as much. It was an essay and I wrote to Dawkins himself. Your opinion is of no consequence to me. I peeked in at that endless thread; cosmosdan’s got all the bases covered and said exactly what I did; that we don’t know at this point in time what we don’t know. Someday we will. Now let the thread be. I think Ware just had it up to here with all the gladtalk and happy-making on the part of US politicians while he’s off ducking bombs and bullets. So give dude a break. McCain needed to be called out. He’s backpedalling furiously today. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/82 "2007-03-28T21:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I think maybe a bunch of us libruls should take up a collection for McCain, to pay for round-trip airfare from D.C. to Baghdad, plus cabfare to this mysterious street where one can take a casual stroll in safety, so he can test out his theory. [/QUOTE] Senators don’t have to pay their air fare out of pocket if they’re out on official business… Anyway, let’s be serious. There’s no way a city of Baghdad’s size is a prison, where no one but armed gangs ever leaves home for even a second. Considering the number of deaths and the people who are dying in Baghdad, it’s a lot more dangerous to be an Iraqi there, and they certainly aren’t barricaded in their homes. Could you walk down a street in Baghdad without anything bad happening? Definitely, Western reporters have traveled all over the city without incident. But to be equally serious, it’s a much more dangerous place than say, New Olreans or even Baltimore, and by many degrees, so just because you can walk down a street without incident doesn’t mean it’s something you’d want to do if you had the resources to live somewhere else and had no good reason to be in Baghdad (like the vast majority of Americans, especially Senators.) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/83 "2007-03-28T21:36:41Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I agree with you here, but I also agree with **Jackmannii** that the reporter’s behavior was unprofessional. A reporter is supposed to lay the facts down and let viewers/readers decide for themselves. “I don’t know what part of Neverland Senator McCain is talking about” is _blatant_ editorializing. I don’t particularly care, and I’m glad to hear a reporter say that, but I’m not going to fool myself by calling it acceptable journalistic behavior. It’s not. [/QUOTE] I disagree. I think that a reporter’s opinion and experience are going to be a necessary and essential part of the reporting. Fact of the matter is, that’s why they have started embedding reporters, isn’t it? So we can see what our heroic troopers are doing at eye-level. So, what you’ve got is a guy at ground level whose ass is in danger every day in a very personal way. Then you have a guy who is thousands of miles away from any danger who is insisting that things are going swimmingly. I think it showed great restraint that the reporter didn’t say, “Of course Senator McCain said that - he’s hitched his election hopes on the public believing him that the war is going well. He’s lying, and will continue to lie until he is crushed in the primaries. Maybe once he realizes that he’s not going to get any benefit out of lying he’ll start to find a more realistic view.” But what do I know? I’m just a realist. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/84 "2007-03-28T21:38:28Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Bullshit. Convincing cites don’t mean a damned thing in the modern media, and everyone knows it. [/quote] Oooh, having to think for yourself is so complex and difficult. So many choices! So dangerous!! We don’t need no steenking facts. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/85 "2007-03-28T21:52:26Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Wrong way: “Sen. McCain has no credibility/is living in Neverland/is full of shit.” Right way: “Analyses from military leaders/statements from relief organizations/current events contradict Sen. McCain’s view that Baghad is safer. For example, \_\_\_\_\_.” [/quote] And to be truly professional, he’d have to give competing views, probably from some army flack. _Boom_ Iraq is perfectly safe. _Boom_ If the reporter is standing in the open, and some pol says the sky is pink with yellow polka dots, the reporter doesn’t have to call NOAA to contradict him. ---
**Author:** ![Elsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b2d939/32.png) [@Elsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elsie)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/86 "2007-03-28T22:02:38Z")
Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m tripping back to the Iraqi Information Minister: “There are only two American tanks in the city. We are winning!” [Here’s the crazy guy !](http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/87 "2007-03-28T22:39:03Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Anyway, let’s be serious. There’s no way a city of Baghdad’s size is a prison, where no one but armed gangs ever leaves home for even a second. [/quote] People weren’t saying that nobody can leave home, but that westerners can’t. > [@](#): > > Definitely, Western reporters have traveled all over the city without incident. It’s relatively well-known that western reporters _don’t_ travel all over the city. They rely for the most part on local reporters/cameramen, etc…to do the job while they usually stay in protected areas, and if they do leave these areas they do so with armed bodyguards, or military protection, etc.. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/88 "2007-03-28T22:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] I think Ware just had it up to here with all the gladtalk and happy-making on the part of US politicians while he’s off ducking bombs and bullets. So give dude a break. McCain needed to be called out. He’s backpedalling furiously today. [/QUOTE] Agreed, especially after reading [this CNN.com story](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/28/btsc.perry.iraq/index.html). How can you ask a reporter who’s lived through the daily hell these guys have to listen to some safely distant yammerhead trying to sell a puppies and rainbows view of the situation and not lose it? At least Ware didn’t close with “What the fuck is he smoking?” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/89 "2007-03-28T22:46:17Z")
I’m often too lazy to dig up cites, but this time it was so easy to find one (first page by just ggogling “reporters in Baghdad”) that you’ll get one. From[here](http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,396669,00.html) : > [@](#): > > According to veteran war reporters, the security threat to journalists in Iraq today is as bad as ever. The growing danger and increasingly prohibitive cost of security measures have sharply limited their ability (and in some cases their willingness) to move around and provide accurate, comprehensive coverage of Iraq. Increasingly, they must rely on the U.S. military for protection and access. The remaining handful of non-embedded reporters in Baghdad are mostly holed up in a few besieged hotels, which, according to one source, are under constant surveillance by insurgent groups. Western reporters rarely venture out of the heavily fortified Green Zone, instead relying on local stringers to gather quotes and research stories. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/90 "2007-03-28T23:04:13Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] Who is this changeling standing in his shoes? [/QUOTE] You did mean “child,” here, right? Not “somebody who has changed” or “doppleganger” or something? Because changeling means the former and not the latter. Just wondering because it wasn’t clear from context. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/91 "2007-03-28T23:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Agreed, especially after reading [this CNN.com story](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/28/btsc.perry.iraq/index.html). How can you ask a reporter who’s lived through the daily hell these guys have to listen to some safely distant yammerhead trying to sell a puppies and rainbows view of the situation and not lose it? At least Ware didn’t close with “What the fuck is he smoking?” [/QUOTE] Also makes a difference that when he made the “neverland” comment, the reporter was taking from personal experience, as a westerner living in Baghdad, rather then as someone who was gathering interviews/statistics/etc from experts, locals and so forth. I think that makes his stating of his own opinion of McCain in a more colorful way then he might have otherwise more understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/92 "2007-03-28T23:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] You did mean “child,” here, right? Not “somebody who has changed” or “doppleganger” or something? [/QUOTE] Nah, I mean [changeling](http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=changeling), figuratively. > [@](#): > > One who, or that which, is left or taken in the place of another, as a child exchanged by fairies. That’ll teach me to use mouldy, unfashionable old words. (You can use definition two as well, if you prefer.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/93 "2007-03-29T00:11:23Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Not sure exactly what the requirements of a “panel show” are, but it was a discussion segment involving three commentators, one of whom was Novak. Sure you’re not getting it confused with “Divorce Court?” That’s a great show too. Hasn’t been quite the same since Judge Mablean left, though. [/QUOTE] No, I recall it quite vividly. In fact, you can see a still shot and description [here](http://www.mediacynic.com/cgi-bin/mediacynic.pl?cynic=84051). It was Novak and Carville, and a host. Pure he said, she said type shit. Whatever it was, it can hardly be cited as an example of CNN showing a critical attitude toward a conservative, which it was brought up to do. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/94 "2007-03-29T01:20:31Z")
[QUOTE=Pazu] [hijack] Are you in the States now? Will you be going back there again? Glad to hear you’re safe. [/hijack] [/QUOTE] To continue with the highjack, I’m in Indonesia and I’ll be working here for the next year or so. I need to update my location. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/95 "2007-03-29T01:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I disagree. I think that a reporter’s opinion and experience are going to be a necessary and essential part of the reporting. [/quote] I don’t think the reporter should be _in_ the story, but it’s a valid form of journalism, and I’m not contracting that. I have issues with the “Neverland” comment, which to me was editorializing. > [@](#): > > Fact of the matter is, that’s why they have started embedding reporters, isn’t it? I don’t know. I thought it was more for the government to keep track of people and stories being reported, call me cynical. > [@](#): > > So we can see what our heroic troopers are doing at eye-level. We don’t need embedding for that. The war correspondents that I’ve known would just go and find the store, and not need a government source to spoon feed it to them. > [@](#): > > So, what you’ve got is a guy at ground level whose ass is in danger every day in a very personal way. Then you have a guy who is thousands of miles away from any danger who is insisting that things are going swimmingly. I think it showed great restraint that the reporter didn’t say, “Of course Senator McCain said that - he’s hitched his election hopes on the public believing him that the war is going well. He’s lying, and will continue to lie until he is crushed in the primaries. Maybe once he realizes that he’s not going to get any benefit out of lying he’ll start to find a more realistic view.” I’m not disagreeing here. I still think that professionalism would call for a more restrained response than the Neverland reference. Even a simple, “I don’t know what neighborhoods Senator McCain is talking about, but from my experience…” rather than the mocking “I don’t know what part of Neverland” line. It gives me great joy to hear a reporter say that, however, I do not think it’s professional. > [@](#): > > But what do I know? I’m just a realist. And what do I know? I’m a (photo)journalist and I believe journalists need to be kept to a standard and an ideal. I don’t think what he did was _grossly_ unprofessional, but I do think it crossed the line of reporting and editorializing. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/96 "2007-03-29T01:41:07Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Definitely, Western reporters have traveled all over the city without incident. [/QUOTE] Oh really? Cite, please. Because every reporter I’ve heard speaking about the Iraq experience speaks about how they are so hampered by security concerns that they can pretty much never leave the safety of their hotels. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/97 "2007-03-29T02:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=madmonk28] To continue with the highjack, I’m in Indonesia and I’ll be working here for the next year or so. [/QUOTE] Thanks for your eyewitness reports from Iraq. You have been an important and credible perspective on these boards. Stay safe. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/98 "2007-03-29T02:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Oh really? Cite, please. Because every reporter I’ve heard speaking about the Iraq experience speaks about how they are so hampered by security concerns that they can pretty much never leave the safety of their hotels. [/QUOTE] You did notice how **Martin** put that particular comment in the past tense, didn’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/99 "2007-03-29T14:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] That’ll teach me to use mouldy, unfashionable old words. [/QUOTE] Careful, or you’ll embolden the prescriptivists. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773/100 "2007-03-29T15:14:50Z")
What’s getting overlooked is how stupid McCain’s statement is if it were true. I mean, whoo-hoo! there are some (not many, not most, not all…just some) neighborhoods in Bagdad it is safe to walk in. BLOCK PARTY!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cnn-reporter-i-dont-know-what-part-of-neverland-senator-mccain-is-talking-about/397773.md?page=6)