# Co-opting Trumpism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589 "2016-10-03T19:56:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/21 "2016-10-04T15:13:43Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The above are excerpts from the Nazi Party platform. Replace the word citizens, nation and Americans with Germans and Reich. “We demand the abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.” That sounds a bit communist. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/22 "2016-10-04T15:18:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Those who are not as educated - and don’t confuse that with lack of intelligence. I submit that Trump is very deliberately aiming at the _less intelligent_. There happens to be a correlation between them and those without an advanced education, but I would agree… the latter does not necessarily imply the former. Now, Trump isn’t going to say, “I love the less intelligent!”. He strategically calls them the ‘less educated’. But who is he really fooling? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/23 "2016-10-04T16:06:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I submit that Trump is very deliberately aiming at the _less intelligent_. You may be on to something but I think it’s cleverer than that: with his language, his simple rhetoric, he’s deliberately including them, rather than specifically targeting them. But I’m sufficiently ignorant of the US electorate that I won’t gainsay you. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/24 "2016-10-05T16:51:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I submit that Trump is very deliberately aiming at the _less intelligent_. There happens to be a correlation between them and those without an advanced education, but I would agree… the latter does not necessarily imply the former. > > Now, Trump isn’t going to say, “I love the less intelligent!”. He strategically calls them the ‘less educated’. But who is he really fooling? On the contrary- liberal Democrats tend to get the votes of both the EXTREMELY educated and the totally UNeducated. A Sociology professor at UCLA and a welfare mom in Compton both vote a straight Democratic ticket. A gay computer scientist in Austin and an illiterate Hispanic gardener in Plano both vote a straight Democratic ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/25 "2016-10-05T18:08:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But to answer your question. I think it has to do with inability to compete globally for the bottom 40% of Americans. Our bottom 40% are not more economically valuable than China’s bottom 99.2%. As much as I truly enjoy disagreeing with everything you say… I think you’re pretty much on the money here. But don’t get too excited, we’re going to go on to disagree in very short order! I think what we are seeing is a huge clash between conservative political orthodoxy of the past generation or so, and the immense changes in society and the world that have happened over the same time. Political conservatives in the US have drawn strict lines in opposition to several issues that go to the heart of creating a country that expands opportunity, from the most basic levels of society’s needs. For example, expanding health care is decried as socialism, so as a result we have a health care system that serves the wealthy and near-wealthy very well, drives the poor into bankruptcy, and fails to serve growing issues like substance abuse. The result? The working classes get fucked. For example, tax policy is pushed to be increasingly flat, often to the point of ridiculing average working people who earn too little to pay any taxes, calling them “lucky duckies” and “free riders,” and wringing hands about “moral hazard” for people who struggle to pay their bills. The result? The rich are increasingly stratified from the rest of society, growing incredibly richer while most others can’t get ahead. For example, education is looked at as tainted to the extent that government helps people pay for it. There’s routine calls to eliminate the Department of Education because it – gasp – provides money to help people learn things. The result? A bunch of Americans have lousy high school educations that don’t serve them well, and those who go to college are being crushed with debt to the degree that their careers and livelihood are hamstrung for at least a decade from doing smart things like saving for retirement, buying a house, etc. The result? A skills gap that has too many Americans unable to compete against others in the global economy. For example, any talk about “leveling the playing field” is derided by conservatives as socialism and oppression, while pushing the idea that there would be more opportunity in America if people tried harder. In reality, our society is sinking into permanent class structures that mean that the rich stay rich, the poor stay poor, and the middle is being squeezed. How anyone squares the circle that if disadvantaged people keep voting for parties that do all they can to deny them health care, education, labor protections, civil rights, and a chance for a better lot in life, then things are just going to keep getting worse for them. And a lot of other people, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/26 "2016-10-05T18:10:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “We demand the abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.” > > That sounds a bit communist. It does, but it’s really dogwhistle for “we plan on nicking everything Jews own”. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/27 "2016-10-05T18:21:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But to answer your question. I think it has to do with inability to compete globally for the bottom 40% of Americans. Our bottom 40% are not more economically valuable than China’s bottom 99.2%. How does the USA differ from heavily unionised Germany which has effectively full employment and has been neck and neck with the USA in terms of exports by value (on one quarter the population)? The view you repeat is a common enough stable of Trump voters - a group also not well known for their economic acumen: if in doubt, blame the bogeyman. Follow the money; the 1% own Congress, that’s the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/28 "2016-10-05T18:31:44Z")
There are lots of older white people in my neighborhood who are upset about the changes they see even locally. And it is because they are upset about not being the majority any more - their houses, probably bought for $100K, are worth a million now. Get some facts out to people. I saw a poll (can’t find it now) saying a large number of voters think the market has gone down over the past 8 years. I did find a Bloomberg poll from 2 years ago saying lots of people distrusted the market, thought the government had nothing to do with it going up, and were sure it would crash again. Those people have lost a bundle by not investing. The real problem is that they are looking for simple answers, and Trump provides them. Wrong answers, but simple. I bet they don’t know that manufacturing in the US has increased. Manufacturing jobs have not. If Trump managed to force Apple to move manufacturing to the US, those factories would be fully automated and those who think they’d get high paying manufacturing jobs like the good old days would be sorely disappointed. Also, my generation grew up with very different attitudes to social issues than my kids did. When we die off one source of conservative power will be gone. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/29 "2016-10-05T20:39:58Z")
Liberalism’s utter failure, pushing the country towards socio-economic chaos is the “takeaway from the Trump Phenomenon.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/30 "2016-10-06T03:11:05Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Liberalism’s utter failure, pushing the country towards socio-economic chaos is the “takeaway from the Trump Phenomenon.” Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/31 "2016-10-06T04:52:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I see as many parallels between Trump and Hitler and the Nazis as I see between Sanders and Mao and/or Stalin and the Communists, which is to say…you see it if you are looking for and cherry picking a pattern, sort of like how you see a face in the clouds or Mary or Jesus on a piece of toast. Then you are ignoring what is there. Donald is an authoritarian nativist who is utilizing racism against a disliked population and pushing the idea of making a country great. He preys on people who are economically disadvantaged, and speaks with an angry style. He is the most like Hitler of any candidate for President in a long, long time. Hell, he activates the alt-right–the fucking neo- **Nazis**. No, he’s not as dangerous as Hitler, but only because he’s an imbecile. Hitler, for his faults, was actually intellectually capable. It’s much more easy for people to trick Donald. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/32 "2016-10-06T04:58:54Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > On the contrary- liberal Democrats tend to get the votes of both the EXTREMELY educated and the totally UNeducated. Well, depends. Uneducated urban minorities tend to vote Democrat, but uneducated rural whites tend to vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/33 "2016-10-06T14:31:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Care to elaborate? Care to rebut? ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/34 "2016-10-06T14:55:02Z")
The condescension in this thread is staggering, from OP on through. “Why are all these stupid, malevolent racists turning to someone other than the people who keep calling them stupid, malevolent racists?” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/35 "2016-10-06T15:02:01Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Care to rebut? Considering it was New Deal/postwar liberalism that created the mass middle-class society of the United States, achieved racial equality, and so on I don’t see why I should see it as “utter failure”. If anything it is movement conservatism’s socioeconomic policies that have been disastrous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/36 "2016-10-06T15:12:02Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Care to rebut? Sure. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/37 "2016-10-06T15:33:34Z")
Rewinding…rewinding…rewinding… If I understand the OP, what is being asked is, assuming Hillary wins, what are the key take-aways in terms of motivating issues driving the Trump supporters, and what can be done about actually addressing them in a Clinton administration? My concern is that simple divisiveness and party tribalism will prevent any real progress based on objective attempts at addressing any motivating issues. Even if the administration came out and said, “We have discovered the magic bullet that will solve the economy, our immigration issues, and foreign threats, let’s do it!” The political opposition would never ever EVER sign on. Sorry, I am very cynical about this. Thus, my question to Trump supporters is always, “OK, I get that you have passionate complaints about real issues. Why do you think that Trump is the solution?” To me, it’s like, “Oh look! My stove is on fire! I’ll get a hammer, that will help!” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/38 "2016-10-06T16:45:04Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Liberalism’s utter failure, pushing the country towards socio-economic chaos is the “takeaway from the Trump Phenomenon.” This was part of the reaction, but another significant factor was a rebellion against decades of broken promises by the GOP establishment. A flip flopper on immigration like Rubio had no shot this time around. Trump tore down the facade of the Bush legacy when he hammered him on Iraq and 9/11. The movement focused on ideological policing on the right, especially when it came to shedding race traitors (who they called “cucks”) and globalists. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/39 "2016-10-06T17:21:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Considering it was New Deal/postwar liberalism that created the mass middle-class society of the United States, achieved racial equality, and so on I don’t see why I should see it as “utter failure”. If anything it is movement conservatism’s socioeconomic policies that have been disastrous. We’re talking current events, not history here. You may wish to start a new thread for your purpose. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589/40 "2016-10-06T17:22:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sure. > > You are wrong. Care to elaborate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-opting-trumpism/767589.md?page=3)