# Co-working going to prison in Singapore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 15, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012 "2002-07-15T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/21 "2002-07-16T15:02:27Z")
Wow. Puts a whole new perspective on America’s “war on drugs.” Well, the guy certainly brought it upon himself, but I don’t think he _deserved_ it, if you know what I mean. You’d think that with all the “concerns” we have about human rights around the world, someone in the U.S. would speak up against the destruction of someone’s life for a little bit of marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/22 "2002-07-16T15:14:58Z")
I must disagree, **Eonwe** -the penalties in Singapore are certainly harsh, some would say draconian, but if you’re stupid enough to know how Singapore treats drug trafficking, and then decide to go ahead and try to smuggle some pot into the country, you do deserve what you get. I don’t mean to be too cold, but geez- any yahoo who goes to Singapore knows full well what the official stance on drugs is… blanx ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/23 "2002-07-16T15:24:47Z")
I definitely see your point, but imagine if we had a law that sentenced people to life in prison for speeding. Yeah, just don’t do it and it won’t be a problem, but I still don’t think that a person would _deserve_ life in prison just because it’s the law. In other words, I don’t think breaking the law means you automatically deserve whatever punishment the government wants to dole out just because you _knew_ ahead of time what the consequences could be. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/24 "2002-07-16T15:35:56Z")
Receiving five lashes and eight years in jail for a committing a crime, the penalties of which could have been death, is hardly destroying one’s life. It’s well known Singapore is very strict, to put it mildly, about drug enforcement. I do not think the U.S. should have _any_ say in how Singapore enforces its drug policy. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/25 "2002-07-16T15:47:26Z")
**Eonwe** - I see your point, but I think the distinction I was trying to draw (and probably failing) was a little more subtle. The justness of the law is irrelevant in this case. Sublight’s co-worker was aware of the risks when he took the pot into Singapore. Thus, he has to own the consequences. To address your point, if you’re a U.S. citizen, and there is a law which sez life in prison for speeding, you have options- you can work to repeal the law, file a variety of lawsuits, call attention to the law, etc. This guy was a guest in Singapore. He knew what the rules were, and didn’t play by them. He doesn’t get a say in the creation of their laws. This is not a human rights violation, it’s the punishment of the stupid. He certainly could have modified his behavior without problem to avoid the situation he’s currently in, so I’m hard pressed to feel sympathy for him. YMMV- blanx ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/26 "2002-07-16T15:54:31Z")
I got arrested in Singapore. A friend and I stupidly trespassed on military property to take pictures of WWII aircraft, and got picked up by military police. We were released without charge (I hid the camera), thank goodness. But if we’d have been charged and convicted, we both knew right there and then that we’d be in for a really nasty sentence. Singapore is a harsh ‘democracy’, and though I don’t agree with many of their laws and punishments, any bozo who is stupid enough to try and carry in contraband is just gonna have to shut up and get on with their sentence. They don’t deserve it, but they should know what to expect. I mean, a few years ago, two Singaporeans were even busted for having cannabis _[in their bloodstream](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_522000/522156.stm)_, having smoked it outside the country. Nor can you claim ignorance over the harshness of the punishment - it’s in huge letters all over the immigration and customs forms, and in the arrivals hall. Is the need for weed so strong in some people that they’d risk the best part of their life just to have a smoke? From what I’ve heard of Changi prison, you wouldn’t want to spend a day in there, let alone eight years. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/27 "2002-07-16T16:06:49Z")
Put me down as firmly in the “incredibly stupid move” category. I mean, Jesus…if you know that it’s that bad in Singapore, why the hell would it ever cross your mind to do something like that? Also, thanks for the details, **Hemlock**. When I read “five lashes of the cane,” I thought, “Hmm, that doesn’t sound like a big deal.” Just kidding. It sounds like a very, big, scary, painful deal. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/28 "2002-07-16T16:46:14Z")
(matthew longs to go back to dear old Montreal and stay there for a long long time) ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/29 "2002-07-16T17:41:05Z")
**blanx** , I definitely see your point, and agree that the time to deal with unjust laws is not when you have been convicted with them. I think that any individual convicted in Singapore for posession of drugs, considering the clarity of the law, doesn’t have much of a right to complain. However, I think that there is a difference between “deserving,” and “that’s your tough luck, shouldn’t have been so stupid.” Eight years is a long time to pay for a small bit of stupidity, especially for something so small. But, as you say, MMMV, and I think we basically agree. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/30 "2002-07-17T03:20:52Z")
Obviously, when in Rome, etc… But it doesn’t follow that people “deserve” cruel and unusual punishment. Singapore is a harsh dictatorship in very pretty wrapping, and extremely tough punishments (you can get lashes for being or hiring an illegal worker) are part of a broader regime aimed at **control** and continued one-party rule, pure and simple. I remember on my first visit years ago, a small story on the front page of the main newspaper featured a head-shoulders photo of a 12 yr old boy, with his name, parents’ names, address (IIRC) and school. He’d been caught taking a bus ride without paying the fare. My musings on the wretched place… [http://www.geocities.com/hkhemlock/mus-sin.html](http://www.geocities.com/hkhemlock/mus-sin.html) **jjimm** Changi’s OK, AFAIK. It has a bad name because of its time as a Japanese-run POW camp in WW2. I’d rather be in a Singapore prison than a US one, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![heresiarch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@heresiarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heresiarch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/31 "2002-07-17T06:16:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\* (There _was_ that time I flew down to Las Vegas, forgetting that I’d dipped into the jam-jar of hash-oil that I’d had when I’d run out of boot-black. Don’t like to have scuffed shoes, and hey, it was plentiful. That little doggie _loved_ me, I can tell you, and I sure didn’t need the extra scrutiny, considering I had a 1"x6" strip of blotter paper concealed in the spine of my copy of _The Crying of Lot 49_. \*\* You’re kidding, right? You polished your shoes with _hash oil_!? For some reason, this is blowing my tiny little mind. Seems like just a little bit of the stuff, taken internally, would give you a more tolerant attitude towards scuffed shoes. Anyway, I’ve kind of been feeling like I revealed too much personal info in a couple of poop threads. You’ve made me feel better about that. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/32 "2002-07-17T11:25:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > \*\ ***jjimm** Changi’s OK, AFAIK. It has a bad name because of its time as a Japanese-run POW camp in WW2. I’d rather be in a Singapore prison than a US one, that’s for sure. \*\* Fair point. Similarly, my friend lives in an old pre-war RAF air base. It was used by the Japanese as an internment camp/execution ground, and has a bad rep amongst the Sing. Chinese for being haunted - hence lots of ex-pats live there in large bungalows with huge gardens, for low rent (none I met there have seen a ghost yet, either). ---
**Author:** ![xejkh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/22d042/32.png) [@xejkh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xejkh)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/33 "2002-07-17T15:33:46Z")
**Hemlock** You may have your own opinions about Singapore but as a Singaporean I’m going to disagree with some them. Laws in Singapore are harsh. That’s a fact. The whole idea, of caning people for possessing drugs, is to prevent – to serve as a deterrent. It **is** supposed to hurt. If it doesn’t, then it misses the point totally. And it’s not that weird, considering that many Asian countries practise them as well. You find them weird because they go against your ideals or what you are used to… IMHO it pales in comparison with some Islamic Law motion a Malaysian opposition party (PAS, for the insiders) are trying to push through. Stoning for adultery, amputation for theft – who’s being draconian here? And when was the last time you visited Singapore? I don’t think any self-respecting newspaper would bother to publish so many nitty-gritty details that most people would not bother to read. I certainly don’t recall any article on the front page like that. Your website is outdated and you need a review of things happening in Singapore right now. I refer you to www.gov.sg/ and straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/ . They may be biased, but so is your website. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/34 "2002-07-17T18:47:44Z")
Ya know, last time I was in Singapore, I made a few observations: - Its a small place, and crowded. This means that it takes _very_ little to screw-up the entire place. - Tight social controls mean that _very_ little is happening to screw the place up. - End results: One of the _least_ screwed-up places I’ve ever been. It’s not America, but you know what…? Within it’s own context, it works just as well, if not better. I won’t try placing American, or European, values on Singapore, because they just won’t fit. Singapore works just fine withing it’s own proper context, and I _like_ the place, despite being an avid supporter of personal freedoms. The OP’s co-worker should count himself lucky he hadn’t tried his little smuggling routine in a country with even more harsh laws, one with less general respect for prisoner’s well-being, like, perhaps… Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Jerrybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8c91f0/32.png) [@Jerrybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerrybear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/35 "2002-07-18T00:00:08Z")
Suckapore is nothing at all like a “democracy.” Try “fascist hell hole” instead. Countries like that should be condemned by the international community, and have no right to exist in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/36 "2002-07-18T01:26:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jerrybear \* > \*\*Suckapore is nothing at all like a “democracy.” > > Try “fascist hell hole” instead. > > Countries like that should be condemned by the international community, and have no right to exist in my opinion. \*\* Further proof that **Ignorance is bliss.** Just try not to spread your stupidity and ignorance around too much, OK?:wally ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/37 "2002-07-18T03:56:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\* I won’t try placing American, or European, values on Singapore, because they just won’t fit. \*\* Bingo. After spending three and a half years here (as a Dutch expat), I fully agree. Most people here that I’ve talked to simply do not want a more Western style democracy - they are happy with the current system. It has given them a lifestyle level superior or even far superior to the surrounding countries (Malyasia, Indonesia, Phillippines). Sure, as a Westerner, I don’t like the system, and I certainly don’t like the censorship. Yes, I would agree that in our eyes their drug laws are draconian. But it works. And if you get caught with drugs in Singapore, you’d better be prepared to pay the hefty price for it. No sympathy here. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/38 "2002-07-18T04:34:09Z")
**xejkh** - If I were on-line in Singapore, logged on to a govt authorized ISP, I’d say exactly the same as you. I was last in SIN a couple of years back, I guess. It’s definitely loosened up over the last 15 years, but the fact is, it’s a dictatorship, an enlightened despotism, where the people are rewarded for not questioning the ruling party. I do read the Straits Times site, with its plentiful stories about crime, corruption, bad schools and instability in every place on earth but the Lion City; the permanent banner ad for Headmaster Lee’s autobiography; the twee opinion polls (today’s is “do you think re-cycled water is safe” - the subtext being “yes it is safe boys and girls”). One story from today’s issue - _Beijing cannot afford to let HK economy collapse_ was a good laugh. Judging by its attempts to micro-manage slight increases in pluralism, I think even the SIN govt realizes that a cowed and uncritical populace isn’t conducive to tomorrow’s economic needs. But essentially, it’s still obsessed with control. Hence the over-the-top penal system. Caning illegal immigrants? Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/39 "2002-07-18T09:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > **It’s not America, but you know what…? Within it’s own context, it works just as well, if not better. I won’t try placing American, or European, values on Singapore, because they just won’t fit. Singapore works just fine withing it’s own proper context, and I _like_ the place, despite being an avid supporter of personal freedoms.** However, as said to me by a Chinese pro-democracy campaigner in Hong Kong: “A cosh round the head still hurts as much whether you’re Western or Asian”. ---
**Author:** ![xejkh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/22d042/32.png) [@xejkh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xejkh)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012/40 "2002-07-18T11:18:58Z")
Just one more point: I may share the same opinions regarding the government about this issue, but it does not mean that I will totally agree with whatever the government does. Going by what some suggest, I would have been denied access to this board, considering the amount of “unorthodox” information available. 🙂 Anyway, getting caught and jailed, and caned for possessing 2.5g of marijuana in Singapore is stupid, and it’s even worse when one is completely aware of what can happen. Moral of this story? Don’t bring drugs into Singapore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/co-working-going-to-prison-in-singapore/119012.md?page=3)