# Coaches with Multiple Championships Who NOBODY Regards as a Genius or Hall of Famer **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056 "2012-04-17T16:36:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/1 "2012-04-17T16:36:06Z")
Arguably, any coach or manager could get lucky and win a championship, even if he wasn’t very good at his job. But when a guy wins multiple championships, people usually take a second look, and may conclude, “He WAS a better coac hthan we realized at the time.” But there are a few guys I can think of who’ve won multiple world championships and STILL don’t command tremendous respect. MLB Ralph Houk Cito Gaston NFL Tom Flores Tom Coughlin George Seifert NBA Rudy Tomjanovich Greg Popovich Who else can you think of? And do you think these guys are great coaches who don’t get enough credit? Or are they just lucky stiffs who happened to be handed extremely talented teams? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/2 "2012-04-17T16:51:33Z")
Baseball Danny Murtaugh (except in Pittsburgh, where he is very well regarded.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/3 "2012-04-17T16:53:59Z")
Gregg Popovich commands tremendous respect in the NBA. I don’t think he belongs on this list at all, since he’s been an excellent coach for 15 years and is definitely a Hall of Famer. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/4 "2012-04-17T17:10:57Z")
Billy Martin is … controversial. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/5 "2012-04-17T17:15:01Z")
Mike Shannahan with the Broncos? He was thought to be a genius, but that’s certainly not the current thinking. Tom Kelly won two WS rings with the Twins, and while Minnesota loves him, he’s never going to get the hoopla of Joe Torre or Tony LaRussa. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/6 "2012-04-17T17:15:31Z")
Anyone who follows the NBA at all regards Popvich as a genius. Many people talk about him and Phil Jackson in the same breath well ahead of the Rileys and Nelsons of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/7 "2012-04-17T17:16:00Z")
Maybe you need to fit a pre-determined personality to get the kind of following that lands you in the HOF. Examples: the Fearless Leader, the Tyrant, the Strategist, the Down-Home Guy, the Grizzled Veteran, etc. Not that sports fans should start thinking on a metalevel about the human side of the game. It might start to look like Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots, a series of interchangeable personalities interrupted by the odd Character (eg: Billy Martin). ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/8 "2012-04-17T17:56:49Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > Mike Shannahan with the Broncos? He was thought to be a genius, but that’s certainly not the current thinking. I’ll see your Shannahan and raise you a George Seifert. In the NBA, I’d say Rudy T fits the bill rather well. To a lesser degree Stan Van Gundy. I’d also toss in Tom Thibedeau, the current coach of the Bulls. He was an assistant coach under Doc Rivers when the Celtics won in '08 and deserves a lot of the credit for their historically effective, championship-winning defense that season. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/9 "2012-04-17T18:13:19Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I’ll see your Shannahan and raise you a George Seifert. You mean the guy mentioned in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/10 "2012-04-17T18:14:39Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > Mike Shannahan with the Broncos? He was thought to be a genius, but that’s certainly not the current thinking. > > Tom Kelly won two WS rings with the Twins, and while Minnesota loves him, he’s never going to get the hoopla of Joe Torre or Tony LaRussa. I should have thought of TOm Kelly- excellent answer. As for Popovich… I’ll concede he’s not quite at the level of a Cito Gaston, but I’d still wager that if you asked 100 random fans to name the best coaches in the NBA, you’d hear a lot of other names before anyone thought of him. Popovich is one of those guys you often have to remind fans off… at which point, they’ll say, “Oh yeah, he’s great, too.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/11 "2012-04-17T18:17:26Z")
I’ll agree Popovich doesn’t have the kind of media personality Pat Riley and Phil Jackson did, and he hasn’t even taken his anti-personality to the extremes Bill Belichick has. He also does play in a relatively small media market and his teams have not typically been the most exciting. But he’s won four championships in 15 years and (together with Buford) the Spurs are maybe the most stable and respected organization in the NBA. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coaches-with-multiple-championships-who-nobody-regards-as-a-genius-or-hall-of-famer/619056/12 "2012-04-17T18:34:15Z")
I think you might be able to take Tom Coughlin off this list, given he just won his second it is hard to judge at this point how he is considered overall.