# Coat of arms question: red lion rampant, three scallop shells; motto "Che Sera..." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605 "2016-12-13T12:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/1 "2016-12-13T12:01:17Z")
The Cub and I came across a coat of arms we hadn’t seen before: red lion rampant on silver, beneath a black fess with three white scallop shells. Motto: “Che sera …” with a third word we couldn’t make out. I told him I would try to find out who they belonged to. Anyone have any idea? From context, my guess is royalty in the 18th century, possibly English. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/2 "2016-12-13T12:31:10Z")
It’s the [Russell coat of arms](http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deeskindredkorner/image031.gif)"Che sara sara" is the family motto. The relevant branch of the family is the [Duke of Bedford](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Bedford). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/3 "2016-12-13T12:35:36Z")
On a side note, we’ve actually met the 14th Duke and his wife. The old couple were lovely people but I know the Duke has now passed away and his son holds the title. Amongst other holdings they own a very sizable chunk of Bloomsbury in London, which is insanely valuable real estate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/4 "2016-12-13T12:40:08Z")
Slight nitpick - that’s a sable (black) [_chief_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_(heraldry)). A [fess](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fess) goes horizontally across the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/5 "2016-12-13T14:17:59Z")
Thanks to both of you for the replies. I knew someone here would have the answers. (I thought “fess” wasn’t quite right…) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/6 "2016-12-13T16:37:35Z")
Wow. And I thought it was Doris Day.[History and Bedford adoption.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_Sera,_Sera_(Whatever_Will_Be,_Will_Be)#Language_in_title_and_lyrics) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/7 "2016-12-13T16:48:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s the [Russell coat of arms](http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deeskindredkorner/image031.gif)"Che sara sara" is the family motto. > > The relevant branch of the family is the [Duke of Bedford](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Bedford). Cadency, cadency, as my harmony professor used to say. A simple glance of the brisure makes [the distinction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadency#/media/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Earl_of_Russell.svg) clear to the meanest intelligence. I’ve been keenly aware of black mullets since schoolyard days–thought everyone did. Kept me from mixing with the rougher element. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/8 "2016-12-14T03:54:17Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Cadency, cadency, as my harmony professor used to say. > > A simple glance of the brisure makes [the distinction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadency#/media/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Earl_of_Russell.svg) clear to the meanest intelligence. Just to be clear here to others - the arms of the Earl Russel are the Russel arms along with the 3rd son brisure of a black mullet (5-pointed star), and the arms of the Duke of Bedford are the actual Russel arms, as the Russel title is actually a cadet branch of the family, despite the name. The Duke is \*way \*over the Earl in terms of precedence. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/9 "2016-12-14T05:44:14Z")
Just ask Gene Chandler. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/10 "2016-12-14T05:47:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Just to be clear here to others - the arms of the Earl Russel are the Russel arms . . . At court we say “Russell”, you know. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/11 "2016-12-14T08:24:23Z")
:smack: I knew that… Russel is my nephew’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/12 "2016-12-14T10:16:00Z")
To be fair, it’s only because of the Doris Day earworm and personal encounter with the old Duke that I knew the answer to this at all. My knowledge of heraldry is pretty much zero. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/13 "2016-12-14T12:59:41Z")
He doesn’t know how to use the three seashells! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/14 "2016-12-14T13:50:33Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > At court we say “Russell”, you know. That’s how you _say_ it. Reminds me of two men in Wodehouse, one who addresses the other as “Mr. Ffrench,” who is corrected “that’s _ffrench_.” ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/15 "2016-12-14T13:51:22Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > He doesn’t know how to use the three seashells! But Sally sells them at certain locations. Again, I’m impressed with the Dope. I would have no idea how to even frame the question. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/16 "2016-12-14T14:35:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Amongst other holdings they own a very sizable chunk of Bloomsbury in London, which is insanely valuable real estate. Reminds me of the joke about the guy who met a big-hat Texan and asked him how big his ranch was. “Oh, 'bout eighty acres,” he replied. “Eighty acres!” the guy said. “Why, that’s so small I bet it doesn’t even have a name!” “Well, you’re right,” the Texan admitted. “Most people just call it downtown Dallas.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/17 "2016-12-14T15:04:45Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > At court we say “Russell”, you know. Actually the British pronunciation is “Rathbun”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/18 "2016-12-18T00:55:30Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Reminds me of the joke about the guy who met a big-hat Texan and asked him how big his ranch was. “Oh, 'bout eighty acres,” he replied. “Eighty acres!” the guy said. “Why, that’s so small I bet it doesn’t even have a name!” “Well, you’re right,” the Texan admitted. “Most people just call it downtown Dallas.” Big hat Texan visits Israeli ranch, says in _his_ ranch you can drive from sunup to sundown and still be on his ranch, Israeli says he had a car like that. ETA: I think you and I have publicly traded these two jokes once before… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coat-of-arms-question-red-lion-rampant-three-scallop-shells-motto-che-sera/774605/19 "2016-12-27T14:42:13Z")
“The sun is riz, the sun is set, and we is still in Texas yet!” Always good to see a heraldry question so promptly answered. God bless the Dope!