# cochlea implants forced on family **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566 "2002-09-08T20:24:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/41 "2002-09-29T21:17:35Z")
A few corrections…starting with **handy** ’s ridiculous statement: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > **As for implants, often, not always, they cut the auditory nerve, this means the person is often completely deaf** The implanted portion of a cochlear implant system is inserted into the _cochlea_…hence the name _cochlear_ implant. The auditory nerve connects the cochlea to the brainstem, and is never interfered with during the implantation surgery. If you knew anything about the anatomy of the ear, you would know that it is _impossible_ to sever the auditory nerve during a cochlear implantation surgery…even accidentally. Your statement that they “often, not always” cut the auditory nerve is flatly false. The reason why the remaining residual hearing is destroyed in the course of the implantation surgery is _not_ because of any interference with the auditory nerve. It is because the implant itself will damage or destroy the remaining hair cells that line the interior of the cochlea. As I stated earlier in this thread, the destruction of residual hearing by the cochlear implant is the primary reason why one of the most important criteria for cochlear implant candidacy is that the person’s residual hearing is of no value in acquiring oral communication skills. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinistasia_ > **Bosda, while I share your views on the so-called deaf culture, I also think that cochlear implants do not fall under the catagory of a life or death situation. They’re still very experimental, very risky, and in this case, I would say it should be the parents’ decision.** Cochlear implants are no longer considered experimental. There are a number of cochlear implants that have been approved by the FDA for non-experimental, non-investigative use. Newer cochlear implants, such as the Nucleus-24, do have to go through clinical trials, and during that time may rightly be considered experimental. Once they receive FDA approval, the newer cochlear implant models are no longer considered experimental. As for risk, I think that this has been exaggerated. Any surgery carries with it a certain level of risk, so cochlear implantation surgery is hardly unique in that regard. But compared to other kinds of surgery, such as open heart surgery, it is considerably less risky. However, there have been [recent reports](http://kidshealth.org/breaking_news/cochlear_meningitis.html) that there appears to be an increased incidence of bacterial meningitis in patients that have received cochlear implants. The precise reasons for this apparent link will require further investigation. Most cochlear implants are placed in children, a population that has a much higher incidence of otitis media than adults…that is my personal prime suspect for this apparent link. And although this isn’t really a correction, I’d like to respond to another one of **handy** ’s remarks regarding cochlear implants: > [@](#): > > Limits what you can do, because you can’t wear it surfing, swimming, > playing football, bathing, (maybe sex but I don’t know about that one) & what are you going to do then? Better learn some sign language to go with it The same thing goes for hearing aids. I’m severely-to-profoundly deaf, and without my hearing aids I can’t hear hardly a damn thing. I can’t wear the hearing aids when I’m swimming, bathing, etc. However, that doesn’t make me think that the hearing aids are without value. You know what I do in those situations where I can’t wear the hearing aids? I cope. It isn’t really a big deal. And besides, there are certain advantages to not wearing hearing aids when sleeping. I can get peace and quiet anytime when I’m going to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/42 "2002-09-29T23:19:30Z")
I don’t mean that there isn’t a culture that goes along with sign language and what not. I mean, people shouldn’t be too exclusive. I also disagree with forcing a parent to say yes to this surgery. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/43 "2002-09-30T16:15:29Z")
“The implanted portion of a cochlear implant system is inserted into the cochlea…hence the name cochlear implant. The auditory nerve connects the cochlea to the brainstem, and is never interfered with during the implantation surgery.” If you read what I said, I clearly said, ‘not always’ However, here is a real case: It’s right here, it was a PBS program: [http://www.pbs.org/righthere/assets/pages/jeanne.html](http://www.pbs.org/righthere/assets/pages/jeanne.html) “If the surgery is successful, Jeanne will be able to hear, at least “to a certain degree.” If not, the process could leave her in permanent total silence.” (This is because they cut her auditory nerve, you can see that if you watch the program, although I don’t know why they did it on her…)… In my opinion, the implants are still ugly & I refer to the deaf who have them as the ‘FrankenDeaf’… (Cecil even wrote a line on them, saying that some people with them can pick up CB talk 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/44 "2002-09-30T16:38:17Z")
**handy** , a cochlear input functions by receiving auditory stimuli and feeding them into the auditory nerve. If you cut the auditory nerve, it wouldn’t work. I think you have been warned **repeatedly** by the mods about giving out inaccurate medical information on the boards. Apparently, you don’t learn. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/45 "2002-09-30T18:59:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > **If you read what I said, I clearly said, 'not always’** ::sigh:: Let me repeat myself. It is **IMPOSSIBLE** to cut the auditory nerve, either intentionally or accidentally, during cochlear implantation surgery. It’s like trying to accidentally sever the optic nerve while operating on someone’s cornea. So even the part of your statement reading “not always” is inaccurate and misleading. > [@](#): > > \*\* However, here is a real case: > “If the surgery is successful, Jeanne will be able to hear, at least “to a certain degree.” If not, the process could leave her in permanent total silence.” (This is because they cut her auditory nerve, you can see that if you watch the program, although I don’t know why they did it on her…)… \*\* Nowhere, I repeat, _nowhere_ in that article does it say that the patient’s auditory nerve was severed. It would leave her in silence because the hair cells are destroyed in the cochlea during implantation, _not because the auditory nerve was cut_. How many times do you have to be told this? > [@](#): > > \*\* > In my opinion, the implants are still ugly & I refer to the deaf who have them as the ‘FrankenDeaf’…\*\* :mad: How…_charitable_ of you. I suspect that my full response to this _charming_ line would be unfit for print in this forum, so I kindly invite you to [read it here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137424). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/46 "2002-10-01T00:33:41Z")
I feel guilty for starting the damn thread. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/47 "2002-10-01T00:57:55Z")
Don’t feel guilty, **carnivorousplant**. If you had never started this thread, I wouldn’t have heard about this story from Grand Rapids so soon. Your thread is a valuable contribution to the Great Debates forum. It isn’t your fault that **handy** choose to behave so poorly in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/48 "2002-10-01T02:18:42Z")
So how would you define Deaf Culture? And will somebody teach me to sign the Mafia joke? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/49 "2002-10-01T04:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Really? Adults get them all the time, how about this: > “Former Miss America Gets Cochlear Implant to Hear Her Children” To my understanding, this was for a different reason than what is currently being argued. She got them not for the purpose of learning oral communication, but to be able to better “hear” her children. Again, not so much for speech, but to sense if they are in trouble (hurt, crying, etc). > [@](#): > > In my opinion, the implants are still ugly & I refer to the deaf who have them as the ‘FrankenDeaf’… And just how long have you been afflicted with this chronic case of “Foot in Mouth Disease”? Since this should remain a civil forum, I will simply re-link [Atreyu’s pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137424) for **emphasis** Thanks to **Atreyu** (who obviously knows his field) for the informative posts. I’ve learned some things I didn’t know before. 🙂 I agree with your take, by the way – that the woman’s reasons for rejecting the surgery are flawed, but that it is currently her decision to make (not the state’s). ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/50 "2002-10-02T15:29:24Z")
“Nowhere, I repeat, nowhere in that article does it say that the patient’s auditory nerve was severed.” No, it doesn’t, but as I stated, I saw the show & they did this, it was on PBS in August 2000, I believe. As I said too, I don’t know why–but if you watch the program, I guarantee you 100% they do this. I wish I knew why, but they didn’t explain it. It’s possible to do it without the nerve however, “What if the Auditory Nerve Is Destroyed? People whose auditory nerves have been destroyed, most often by tumors , cannot benefit from cochlear implants–they have no nerve fibers to stimulate. The only alternative is an implant that stimulates the brain directly. Researchers are exploring two alternatives: implanting electrodes into the cochlear nucleus, the part of the brainstem that normally receives input from the auditory nerve; and implanting electrodes into the auditory cortex.” [http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/content/view.page.asp?I=258](http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/content/view.page.asp?I=258) “The internal component consists of a decoder and a magnet housed in protective easing. The electrode array extends from this casing. This component is implanted into the skull with the electrode array being inserted into the cochlea. The external components consist of a microphone, a series of cords, a transmitting coil and a speech processor. Each part must be worn in order for the device to work.” [http://www.duchoeny.com/chom\_news.htm](http://www.duchoeny.com/chom_news.htm) To me, a CI looks alot like the old hearing aid from the 60s & 70s. These were big. I think in the future that they are going to get better looking. I was offered one in the US when they first came out in the 70s. Then they only offered one tone & it wasn’t enough, today you can get them with at least 22 tones. Which isn’t enough for me still… I have a friend who runs a local Longs. He was born deaf & just got his CI a few years ago. He is now the senior manager for Longs & has a ‘hearing home’. When he was married he was Deaf, but when he got him implant (at about 35) he stopped teaching his children sign & they no longer use sign language primarily. He does use sign language if there are deaf customers though. Which is pretty cool. i don’t mind the Pit, but if people have something nasty to say to me they should say it to my face. Or sign it, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/51 "2002-10-05T22:07:02Z")
The latest news: [http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=961362&nav=0RcdBctu](http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=961362&nav=0RcdBctu) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/52 "2002-10-05T23:01:26Z")
That’s not surprising, since they can choose to have them later if they want to. The Sound & the Fury is a video that does both sides of the story but there are radical Deaf on the net that say that flick doesn’t side with the Deaf. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/53 "2002-10-05T23:15:47Z")
Ms. Plant and I saw the Sound & the Fury last year on PBS. Was the Father using body language in ASL or were his body motions a display of anger and frustration? ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/54 "2002-10-06T04:50:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*“Nowhere, I repeat, nowhere in that article does it say that the patient’s auditory nerve was severed.” > > No, it doesn’t, but as I stated, I saw the show & they did this, it was on PBS in August 2000, I believe. As I said too, I don’t know why–but if you watch the program, I guarantee you 100% they do this. I wish I knew why, but they didn’t explain it. \*\* I absolutely dare you to find a cite for your claim that the auditory nerve is severed during cochlear implantation surgery, even accidentally. I’ve said this before, but apparently I need to say it again: The anatomy of the inner ear makes it _impossible_ for the auditory nerve to be interfered with during cochlear implantation surgery. Do you see that word, **handy**? _Impossible_. Do you need a dictionary definition to assist you with that word? [Here you go.](http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=impossible) Your continuing assertion that they do this is indicative of your willingness to perpetuate a lie. Your continuing failure to back up your claim is indicative of the weakness of your position. Your continuing obstinancy in the face of the responses of myself and **KellyM** is indicative of your close-mindedness and inability to process a view different from yours. > [@](#): > > \*\*i don’t mind the Pit, but if people have something nasty to say to me they should say it to my face. Or sign it, whatever. \*\* I put my reaction to an earlier remark of yours in the Pit becuase what I had to say would not have fit within the confines of Great Debates. If your claim that you do not really mind the Pit is an accurate one, then you’ll have no trouble [visiting my thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137424) there and responding to the comments I made. The fact that you have chosen not to do so (as of this writing) is indicative of your unwillingness to face up to the appalling remark you made earlier in this thread. Frankly, I’m not surprised by your absence from the Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/55 "2002-10-06T05:09:08Z")
Oh, one more thing, **handy**. When I asked for a cite, I’m not asking for a link to some screed from a radical Deaf website…I mean either a cite from a news organization (i.e., CNN, Fox News Network, NBC, etc.) or a medical-related website. ---
**Author:** ![Deadly\_Nightlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566/56 "2002-10-06T16:52:17Z")
[slight hijack] When I was a minnie kid, and I was in this hospital, My witness parents let me make the decision about having a blood transfusion. It didn’t stop the staff from trying to give me one anyway. [/slight hijack] this is directed at the person who was talkng about blood transfusions- can’t get the qoute thingy to work for anything [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cochlea-implants-forced-on-family/127566.md?page=2)