# 'Cock' can be 'rooster', 'dick' = Richard, yet 'f\*ck' and 'c\*nt' are never non-dirty **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584 "2013-12-05T16:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![James\_Toothpaste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@James\_Toothpaste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Toothpaste)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/21 "2013-12-05T22:11:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even when “crap” is used to mean rubbish or nonsense, it’s still dirty. Calling something “crap” is a statement that it has the same value or quality as fecal matter. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/22 "2013-12-05T22:53:30Z")
> [@Throbert\_McGee](#): > > I’m asking whether there are theories about what word Beowulf might have used on occasions when he needed a “dysphemism” for the male crank. It appears that Old English words for penis included [_teors_](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teors) and [_pintel_.](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pintel#Old_English) No indication of how offensive they were, however. [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changes_to_Old_English_vocabulary) also mentions _waepon_ (weapon), but this is clearly a euphemism. Another archaic word is [_pizzle_](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pizzle), first used 1523, which is now mainly restricted to the penis of an animal. Merriam-Webster lists the first use of penis in English as 1668. ---
**Author:** ![Throbert\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/57b2e6/32.png) [@Throbert\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throbert_McGee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/23 "2013-12-06T00:31:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well yes, but it’s the same with “shit” in English - it is much milder by comparison with other “obscenities”. > I am a native Russian speaker. I assure you that “govno” is pretty much equivalent, in strength, to “shit” in current English usage. Okay, _spasibo za poyasnenie_. But as a native US English speaker, I would claim that until quite recently, “shit” ranked among the _“tri kita”_\* of American cuss-words. In other words, it was just as bad as “fuck” and “cunt,” even if it has suffered devaluation in the past few decades by overuse. BTW, for any other serious or casual students of Russian reading this: as a non-native speaker, I feel obliged to warn from bitter experience that we _inostrantsy_ must never ever USE any of these words, even though they sound completely enchanting and one should definitely learn them by heart. And, in particular, don’t utter them in mixed-sex company – because, theoretically, Russian women don’t know these words, in the same theoretical sense that “girls don’t fart or masturbate” 😉 So it looks trashy for a man to say them in front of women (or for a woman to say them in front of men!), even though English has recently become more egalitarian on this point. - Russ. idiom: _tri kita_ = “the three whales” = Slavic equivalent of “the four elephants on top of the world-turtle” – or, in other words, the “basic fundamental pillars” (not always exactly three) of any specified subject. ---
**Author:** ![Throbert\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/57b2e6/32.png) [@Throbert\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throbert_McGee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/24 "2013-12-06T00:54:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It appears that Old English words for penis included [_teors_](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teors) and [_pintel_.](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pintel#Old_English) No indication of how offensive they were, however. [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changes_to_Old_English_vocabulary) also mentions _waepon_ (weapon), but this is clearly a euphemism. > > Another archaic word is [_pizzle_](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pizzle), first used 1523, which is now mainly restricted to the penis of an animal. > > Merriam-Webster lists the first use of penis in English as 1668. Hmmm… haven’t found a confirming source, but I would bet money that _pintel_ is cognate with “punch” and “point” (both from Latin _pungere_, “to puncture”), and not with Latin _penis_ (“tail”). To my genuine surprise, “pizzle” has no proven relation to “piss,” but instead comes from a Germanic word meaning “tendon; sinew.” And here in the States, dried bull-dongs are sometimes sold as chew-toys for dogs under the name “Pizzle”! (Though sometimes they’re euphemistically labeled “Beefy Sticks.”) And although it sheds no light on my original question, a chain of Google links led me to an Albrecht Dürer woodcut called [_Das Mannerbad_](http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200182945/default.html) (“The Men’s Bath”) – check out the strategic placement of that “cock-as-in-faucet” at the lower left of the picture! ---
**Author:** ![Throbert\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/57b2e6/32.png) [@Throbert\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throbert_McGee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/25 "2013-12-06T01:28:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I’m pretty sure that “cock” and “prick” were both used in Shakespeare, in a phallic sense, which would put them at older than 300 years. Thanks for that correction! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/26 "2013-12-06T02:14:22Z")
> [@Throbert\_McGee](#): > > Okay, _spasibo za poyasnenie_. But as a native US English speaker, I would claim that until quite recently, “shit” ranked among the _“tri kita”_\* of American cuss-words. In other words, it was just as bad as “fuck” and “cunt,” even if it has suffered devaluation in the past few decades by overuse. Since I only spoke English for the last 30+ years, I caught exactly those past few decades of overuse. > [@](#): > > BTW, for any other serious or casual students of Russian reading this: as a non-native speaker, I feel obliged to warn from bitter experience that we _inostrantsy_ must never ever USE any of these words, even though they sound completely enchanting and one should definitely learn them by heart. > > And, in particular, don’t utter them in mixed-sex company – because, theoretically, Russian women don’t know these words, in the same theoretical sense that “girls don’t fart or masturbate” 😉 So it looks trashy for a man to say them in front of women (or for a woman to say them in front of men!), even though English has recently become more egalitarian on this point. Very true. It is not “endearing” to hear foreigners brag that they know those words. There were students of Russian who bragged about their knowledge by repeating those words in front of my parents (shudder). ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/27 "2013-12-06T03:29:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Since I only spoke English for the last 30+ years, I caught exactly those past few decades of overuse. > Very true. It is not “endearing” to hear foreigners brag that they know those words. There were students of Russian who bragged about their knowledge by repeating those words in front of my parents (shudder). Oh man, I never cussed in Russian. I even felt uncomfortable using the familiar second person. Of course this was almost 25 years ago, when babushki who’d help defeat Hitler were still thick on the ground, happy to set young men straight about безобразство. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/28 "2013-12-06T04:05:19Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > We still have ball cocks and stop cocks here in spite of the PC brigade. And spotted dick! > [@Flywheel](#): > > For an “inherently dirty” English word for “penis,” how about the Yiddish loanword “schlong”? OED traces it back to the German for “serpent,” but it has no non-obscene uses in English. “So, Lonestar, I see your schwartz is as big as mine!” ETA: I knew knew a girl in my high school (or maybe junior high) band class with the last name “Schlonga”. She played … the trombone. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/29 "2013-12-06T04:19:49Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > ETA: I knew knew a girl in my high school (or maybe junior high) band class with the last name “Schlonga”. She played … the trombone. Seriously. Hey, I know a guy named Jack Putz. _Putz_, like schmuck, means penis in Yiddish as well as fool/jerk/idiot. In US English the latter meanings predominate. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/30 "2013-12-06T04:23:18Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > “So, Lonestar, I see your schwartz is as big as mine!” The pun, of course, is on the Yiddish _schwanz_, also meaning penis (or tail). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/31 "2013-12-06T14:52:35Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Actually, there is an older usage of the word by sailors describing a type of knot called a “cunt splice.” > > [Rope splicing - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_splicing) Since “cunt” dates from 1230 (and is probably older) and “splice” didn’t occur until 1524 (see the OED), this is unlikely in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/32 "2013-12-06T15:00:52Z")
I think at this point we should just assume that every Yiddish word means “penis” until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/33 "2013-12-06T15:17:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think at this point we should just assume that every Yiddish word means “penis” until proven otherwise. And that every Yiddish song sounds like [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_wxPIijKBQ&t=3m33s). (NSFW) ---
**Author:** ![Throbert\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/57b2e6/32.png) [@Throbert\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throbert_McGee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/34 "2013-12-06T21:18:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Very true. It is not “endearing” to hear foreigners brag that they know those words. There were students of Russian who bragged about their knowledge by repeating those words in front of my parents (shudder). One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a Russian on this subject is that, for foreigners, using the euphemistic forms like _blin_, _pipets_, _yolki-palki_, not to mention all the numerous _fig_ expressions, will actually make you seem COOLER to most Russians than using the Real Cusswords. (This was hard for me to believe, because it sounded so uncool and Ned-Flanders-ish when the euphemisms are translated back to English – like, “Oh, pancakes!” and “Fiddly-diddly-sticks!”) The thing is, any fool nowadays can look up the cusswords with Google Translate, but if you can use the euphemisms correctly it shows some glimmer of cultural awareness, as well as good manners. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/35 "2013-12-10T12:24:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even when “crap” is used to mean rubbish or nonsense, it’s still dirty. Calling something “crap” is a statement that it has the same value or quality as fecal matter. I find that to be about as true as saying that something “sucks” is referring fellatio. Sure, both are still negative, but they aren’t that derogatory. Heck, I’d say the same thing about “shit.” It’s worse than crap, but is rarely meant to evoke the quality of fecal matter. These days I think you’d have to specifically spell out the reference, like James the Video Game Nerd does when he references diarrhea. Also, I’m surprised the OP wasn’t asking for an explanation for why these particular words seem to have no significantly alternate meaning that is clean, instead of just asking if this was always the case. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/36 "2013-12-11T01:29:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > ?? “Govno” has no non-“filthy” meaning. > [@Chronos](#): > > Neither does “crap”, but it’s still considered a milder word than “shit”. On the contrary, crap is a non-filthy term used in certain dice games. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/37 "2013-12-11T01:38:11Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > On the contrary, crap is a non-filthy term used in certain dice games. No, that’s _craps_, not crap. It has [a different derivation, from _crabs_.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/craps) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/38 "2013-12-11T01:38:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > On the contrary, crap is a non-filthy term used in certain dice games. No, that’s _craps_, not crap. It has [a different derivation, from _crabs_.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/craps) It’s not the same word. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/39 "2013-12-11T01:41:41Z")
Yes, the game is certainly called craps, plural. But a player can crap out. Hence crap is a term used in the game. And never mind the origin, it is a non-filthy word. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584/40 "2013-12-11T04:50:26Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In my youth the variation ‘quim’ was more commonly used. Fanny was a milder alternative and it amuses us when Americans talk about a ‘fanny pack’. Entirely different item over here:) I have an amusing story about how I learned that in England “fanny” means “pussy” not “butt.” Well, it was amusing for me, I fear it must have been quite distressing for the young Englishwoman I was dating at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cock-can-be-rooster-dick-richard-yet-f-ck-and-c-nt-are-never-non-dirty/675584.md?page=3)